Episode 238: Blockchain Melody

12/8/22-- This week on The Horse Race we're talking crypto and BPS parents. The team does a rapid fire news update in the intro, following up on the rail strike, the opening of the Green Line extension, and Mayor Wu and Gov. Elect Healey's first sit-down.

Later, Stephanie Murray. alum of The Horse Race, drops by the pod to give us a crypto lesson. She explains what happened with the collapse of FTX and walks us through the Massachusetts connections.

Then, Poll Maestro Steve walks us through a new poll from the MassINC Polling Group that surveyed Boston Public School parents.

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Full Transcript Below:

Jennifer Smith: [00:00:25] This week on The Horse Race, we're learning all about two of the great mysteries of our time cryptocurrency and parenting school age children. It's Thursday, December 8th. [00:00:34][8.6]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:00:49] Welcome back to The Horse Race, your weekly look at politics, policy and elections in Massachusetts. I'm Lisa Kashinsky here with Steve Koczela and Jennifer Smith. And I don't know, it's 55 degrees. There's Christmas trees all over the place. The world is turning upside down. [00:01:06][17.2]

Jennifer Smith: [00:01:07] Yeah. And apparently getting those Christmas trees is really, really hard now. I don't I don't really understand either the crypto market or the Christmas tree market. So if anyone wants to explain that to me, go right the heck ahead. [00:01:20][13.4]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:01:21] I think if we call Mass GOP chair Jim Lyons, he might be able to at least handle the Christmas tree part of that. He's very busy selling them right now. [00:01:29][8.6]

Steve Koczela: [00:01:30] It is hard to tell what season it is right now. Looking out the window, it's rainy. It's in the mid fifties and there's no sign that Christmas is in like two and a half weeks or something like that. And also one reliable indicator that it is early December and even here as we just had a Georgia Senate runoff was big news last night. Amazing transition. You're welcome, everybody. So Raphael Warnock wins. [00:01:53][23.2]

Jennifer Smith: [00:01:54] That's right, 5149 Democrats, two Republicans in the Senate. So ultimately, very little has changed. But Raphael Warnock just keeps winning those elections in Georgia, doesn't he? [00:02:08][14.7]

Steve Koczela: [00:02:09] It's remarkable in a way, though, I mean, because pretty much always midterms are losses for the president. And to actually gain a seat, I think is is noteworthy. And it does have some procedural implications as far as how committees are formed and so forth. So you could have some differences. But overall, you know, evenly divided Senate is the main dynamic, even though there will be some differences sort of around the edges. [00:02:30][20.9]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:02:31] And President Biden had talked about how important it was for Democrats to get that 51st seat when he was here last week in this kind of whirlwind of a day that was part visit with the prince, part campaigning for Raphael Warnock, in part saving face with some unions after signing the deal to avert this rail strike. [00:02:50][19.6]

Jennifer Smith: [00:02:51] That is right. As we had previewed last week, Congress was getting ready to vote to avert a rail strike by basically just imposing the contract and the agreement that the Biden team, including Labor Secretary Marty Walsh, had negotiated back in September. That was narrowly voted down by one bloc of rail union workers. So that vote did ultimately go through. And the rail strike has been averted. But now it means that the Biden administration has to be in kind of damage control mode right now, because the version that passed did not include the main sticking point, which was in the union workers opinion, adequate sick leave. So that will continue to be a spot of some soreness going forward, I'd imagine. But speaking of trains, can we pivot from there to trains? Are we testing our segue game today? Are we going to get a Green Line extension? Allegedly. Is this the ghost of Christmas future? [00:03:47][55.8]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:03:48] It very well might be because finally, apparently, maybe, possibly. I'm really not going to say it's happening until I actually see a train rolling into the station. The Green Line extension going to Medford is supposed to open. I'm looking at a calendar next week. I don't believe it. But apparently on December 12th, there will be five new stops and shiny new stations all the way very close to near where I live. [00:04:16][27.6]

Jennifer Smith: [00:04:16] I am sending nothing but positive vibes toward this train, hoping that for once we can avoid the situation that we see every time, which is that a new thing happens on the MBTA and then it has to get shut down or pulled within a week. So we are we are not manifesting that. That is not the energy we are bringing into this mid-December. [00:04:34][17.3]

Steve Koczela: [00:04:36] Positive vibes. That's how I keep the trains running on time here at the horse race. [00:04:39][2.9]

Jennifer Smith: [00:04:39] All right, Steve, your turn for a segue. What's your best transition here? [00:04:42][2.9]

Steve Koczela: [00:04:43] Well, speaking of trains, the mayor who goes by Wu Tran on Twitter and Governor elect Maura Healey met earlier this week. Lisa Playbook got all into it. What did they talk about? [00:04:54][10.8]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:04:54] Well, I can't really tell you, because as is kind of continuing on this track for the incoming governor, we don't get a whole lot of detail when she does press conferences. So they talked, I guess, in broad strokes. They told us about climate resiliency, housing, transportation, workforce development, massing cars, asked them details about it. We didn't get any. We did get a lot of pledges of partnership, you know, between these two top executives. And I'm sure that everyone will call back to those pledges of partnership the second something goes awry. [00:05:28][33.5]

Jennifer Smith: [00:05:28] And now for the final transition of this top segment. What are we doing here today? Are we here today? Is there a purpose in life? Is it December? How is the year gone by this fest? [00:05:38][9.7]

Steve Koczela: [00:05:39] Okay, well, I will get us back on track here and say that it is reunion week here on the. Horse race. Stephanie Murray, now reporter at The Block and of course long time co-host of the horse race, as are billions of listeners already know, is joining us to teach us about crypto and how lawmakers plan to work on crypto and blockchain policies. Then we have the latest of our BPS parent pulse. So let's get on the train. [00:06:02][22.5]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:06:02] Choo-Choo. [00:06:02][0.0]

Jennifer Smith: [00:06:10] After the recent collapse of the International Cryptocurrency Exchange, FTX, we were left with the seemingly unanswerable question What's going on with crypto? What is crypto? Did we know this was going to happen with crypto? Well, here to help us try to answer any of those is our dear friend and former co-host of this year Pod, Stephanie Murray, now a reporter at The Block. Stephanie, thank you so much for joining us. [00:06:34][23.9]

Stephanie Murray: [00:06:34] It is a pleasure to be back. Thank you for having me. [00:06:37][2.6]

Jennifer Smith: [00:06:37] It's a delight. And we are going to give you the best and simplest question first, which is what exactly is cryptocurrency? And is there something about it that made it vulnerable to exactly this kind of collapse? [00:06:51][13.8]

Stephanie Murray: [00:06:52] It is an excellent question. So cryptocurrency is basically just digital currency, where the transactions are verified by cryptography instead of like a central authority, like the government or something like that. And what's really interesting about what happened with FTX is that kind of the the parts that went wrong aren't really the crypto parts per se. Because what happened was that sort of a centralized company or a small group of people were making the decisions, which is kind of like the opposite of what crypto is trying to do. But at the same time, I think that, you know, there were some key elements of crypto that caused this to go wrong, namely that there just are not a whole lot of regulations and rules around crypto in the United States. The companies know how to follow, which tends to push them outside of the United States into other jurisdictions like the Bahamas, for example, where FTX was based, it did have a U.S. arm. But, you know, most of that business was happening in the Bahamas where, you know, U.S. regulators have a whole lot less power. So, you know, I think a lot of people in the industry would agree that the lack of regulation and clear regulation is part of what went wrong, because a lot of companies are worried that regulators are going to kind of do the rulemaking through individual enforcement on particular companies instead of setting rules for everyone. So that pushes a lot of companies out of the U.S.. [00:08:19][86.8]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:08:20] So we'll get to those regulations in a second. But first, explain to us how big the crypto market is and how FTX fits into this larger market. [00:08:30][9.8]

Stephanie Murray: [00:08:30] So the crypto market is pretty big. I checked yesterday and like right now the market cap is around 888 billion. That's according to COINGECKO. It depends on which, you know, service you use to track it. But, you know, it's like in the 800 billion range. And that's pretty notable because it's grown a lot. There have been, you know, other collapses in the industry before with exchanges. But when those happened, crypto was a lot smaller and they had a bigger impact on the entire market just because it was smaller. But now that crypto's more mainstream. FTX was a big player, but it's certainly not the only player. It was one of the biggest exchanges in the world, but not the only one. I think in January, FTX was valued at around $32 billion. You know, I think there are people kind of looking at that now wondering if that valuation was really the most accurate or thoughtful way to value it. But that was the valuation. And then there are a bunch of other exchanges like FTX where you can buy and sell crypto. Some big names of those are Binance, Kraken, Gemini, which is the one run by the Winklevoss twins Crypto.com, Coinbase. So there's a lot of them. And FTX is certainly cause, you know, some dominoes to fall in the market. And, you know, crypto markets have really taken a sharp downturn after this. But, you know, it hasn't ended crypto as a whole. [00:09:51][80.4]

Jennifer Smith: [00:09:52] And when it comes to the essential positive and negative case for cryptocurrencies, you know, explain more about this. Check me if I'm wrong. But looking at kind of the case that people will make if they're advocating for crypto markets, they say, you know, it's relatively safe, transparent, accessible. But then a lot of the focus is on specifically the speed of transactions and kind of the high risk, high reward mechanic of it. And then that seems directly tied into, ironically enough, the objections to it, which is one of the reasons that it can be faster is this lack of regulation. You also get into environmental impacts of things like Bitcoin mining and then that same tether that you talked about with how entrenched it is or intertwined it is into like more traditional finance markets. So when you're thinking about those cases fought against it, does the FTX's collapse end up implicating any of those elements, or is it just a matter of, look, human error is going to end up impacting whatever kind of smaller financial currency exchange you happen to be involved in. And if there is limited regulation, that just makes it more susceptible to that kind of human foul up. [00:11:09][77.0]

Stephanie Murray: [00:11:09] That's a really interesting question. I think, you know, what I've been hearing from sources and lawmakers and, you know, kind of just people in the industry is that there's a big, you know, look at what this is going to do to the regulatory landscape for crypto, if this is going to cause lawmakers to do something to, you know, put some more checks on exchanges like this. And, you know, like as as we were talking about a little bit earlier, like FTX is a centralized exchange. It's not really the kind of, you know, lofty goal of crypto. It's one company controlled by, you know, people. But even though they were audited by an outside firm, there were a lot of things that auditors missed and things like that. And so those are some of the proposals and kind of policy ideas that I've seen over the last few weeks and things that were around before FTX imploded. But especially now, like could there be a way to put some stricter auditing rules, make exchanges, show that they have a proof of reserves. So if there is, you know, a run on the bank like there was at FTX, they can actually pay people out, which, you know, clearly didn't happen. They had to shut off withdrawals and nobody could get their money out of the international arm of FTX. So I think there's just, you know, a lot of things to look at. But on the other hand, if companies stay kind of outside of the US and outside of U.S. jurisdiction, it's going to be a lot harder to to set those rules. And so there's been like a lot of talk back and forth about whether the Securities and Exchange Commission, which, you know, regulates some pieces of the crypto industry if they drop the ball. You know, some people say that they did. Other people say, look, like this was happening in the Bahamas. Like, what are they supposed to do? [00:12:47][97.2]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:12:48] So I guess one of the questions I have at this point is what exactly happened to FTX? What is the layperson's summary of exactly how we got here? [00:12:57][8.7]

Stephanie Murray: [00:12:58] So there's still a whole lot that we don't know. And that's because according to the new CEO of FTX, who took over after they filed for bankruptcy, it there was basically like no corporate diligence. There was kind of a no bookkeeping in a way that, you know, they could go through and kind of see what went wrong. He actually said that FTX doesn't quite know how many people work there or who they are and how to reach them. And, you know, there was like this detail in the bankruptcy filing that when employees had expenses, they got approved by emojis. So just kind of, you know, a very sort of informal way of doing business. But, you know, what we know right now is that there was a situation where Binance's, which is a rival exchange, had a really big position of FTT, which is FTX's is like native utility token that you could use on the exchange for things. And it was, you know, valued pretty highly by FTX and finance said that they were going to sell a pretty big possession of that FTT and FTX is sister firm Alameda Research, which is a crypto trading fund. They offered to buy the FTX from Binance for $22, which was kind of like the floor of the token. And then once they said that they would do that, the token was like absolutely taped and FTX had to write off withdrawals. They couldn't pay everybody out and they were insisting that they were fine and everything was fine for a few days. And, you know, within a week they had filed for bankruptcy. So basically what happened is this massive crypto exchange that a lot of people had trusted and kept a lot of money in, had a run on its native token, and it pushed them into bankruptcy. [00:14:41][103.2]

Jennifer Smith: [00:14:42] So walk us through the ripple effects of that, because I guess the question here is to what extent are crypto advocates trying to make the case that this was an isolated incident as opposed to something that they could prepare for in the future, that they could maybe regulate internally? Because it does seem pretty clear that the crypto markets would like the U.S. government to butt out as much as humanly possible. [00:15:04][21.4]

Stephanie Murray: [00:15:04] So there have been a whole lot of ripple effects from the FTX crash. I think one of the most notable ones is that Blockfi, which is the crypto lender, they filed for bankruptcy protection. They had, I think over $1,000,000,000 tied up in FTX between different loans and just like money that they had on the platform that they can't get out anymore. So that's one example. There have been layoffs at a bunch of different firms. I think that that's partially because of FTX and what it's done to the crypto market and just kind of the the economy at large. We're seeing layoffs in a whole lot of different industries, including a media circle, which is a crypto company actually based in Boston. They're not going public anymore. And they kind of cited the the issues with the market right now. And then the other company I am keeping my eye on is DCG, which you know, is linked to Grayscale and Gemini. Those Winklevoss crypto companies, they have also been kind of teetering on the edge of like, are they okay or are they not? So those are those are a few to keep an eye on. So that's one ripple effect. And then the other ripple effect, I would say is what's happening in Washington, as FTX was a huge presence on the Hill lobbying for crypto regulations that, you know, they said would benefit the industry. Others in the industry said would really only benefit FTX and push other people out. They had been pushing for this bill to pass before the end of the year. That would give some more power to the CFTC over digital commodities like Bitcoin that was basically dead. So kind of just all of this kind of what crypto lobbying was kind of pushing for. Like it's all been just wiped off the table right now. And a source put it to me yesterday basically that he's telling clients to kind of just go to the as you see in the lawmakers with your hat in your hand and try to see what you could get because this is just totally kind of really messed up the kind of level of seriousness the lawmakers are going to take the industry with and things like that. [00:17:00][115.4]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:17:01] So what is on the table at this point in terms of regulations and how does that fit into what exists with our usual commerce and security system? [00:17:10][8.5]

Stephanie Murray: [00:17:10] It depends who you ask. There have been some lawmakers on the Senate Agriculture Committee, which is one of the committees that has jurisdiction over this. Why? Because they, you know, are linked to the CFTC. Kind of makes no sense that the Agriculture Committee is handling crypto, but that's the way it is. So they just held their first hearing on FTX and you know, they were talking about different things that they could add or change in that bill that Sam Bacon freed, the former CEO was pushing. You also have people like Elizabeth Warren who some of were reported yesterday is looking at writing, you know, a big sweeping crypto regulation bill that would give some more power to the Securities and Exchange Commission. They already have a pretty good amount of power. And the chair of the commission, Gary Gensler, was on TV today saying that, you know, he's got all the power he needs, but he could use some more resources to do some more enforcement actions. So I think, like what you're going to see is more enforcement from the SEC and the CFTC. And, you know, we're all watching out to see if Sam Bankman-Fried himself is going to get charged with anything. Right now, he is in the Bahamas, kind of doing this media tour or talking to everyone. He talked to us. He did a New York Times summit and got in person. He appeared by video, but the summit was in person. You talked to a whole bunch of people kind of trying to explain what has gone wrong. And what, you know, lawyers have told me is that he's basically kind of incriminating himself if he ends up getting charged. Everything he's saying could be used against him because he's saying, you know, he's sorry. It was his fault. He regrets it, all of that sort of thing. So, you know, that's the other thing that I'm watching out for is kind of what is going to happen. Legal proceedings obviously take a lot of time. But, you know, that's kind of I think a lot of people are wondering what's going to happen to Sam Bankman-Fried himself. [00:19:04][113.4]

Jennifer Smith: [00:19:05] And I don't think we can let you go as if my memory is correct. The one horse race co-host to have ever been a massachusetts native we got to land on. What exactly are the Massachusetts local connections here? It seems like everybody who's ever touched MIT was somehow involved in this. [00:19:22][17.0]

Stephanie Murray: [00:19:23] I when I talk about this, I feel like that meme of the guy pointing to all the papers on the wall with like the string and everything. There are a whole lot of Massachusetts connections to this story because of course there are so MIT, Sam Bankman-Fried went there. Caroline Ellison, the CEO of Alameda Research that you know, the sister by a crypto trading fund, her parents worked there, worked there. She also went to Newton North High School. The Boston Globe actually went to her high school reunion for a story that came out today or yesterday, which I thought was, you know, really interesting and fun to read. Let's see what else. Tom Brady, you know, not quite a mouse anymore, but he's getting sued because of this, because he was one of ten of the high profile promoters who was in FTX ads results part of that to Larry David's wrapped up in that so is David Ortiz. They're all names in a pretty big class action suit that alleges that they promoted illegal securities. And then there's Ryan Saleme, who is the co-CEO of FTX Digital Markets, a western mass native. He, you know, made a lot of money at FTX, went back to Lenox in the Berkshires and bought a bunch of restaurants. And now, you know, there's been a whole lot of kind of questions swirling about what's going to happen there. And the Berkshire Eagle has been doing a lot of reporting on it. I think this week they compared it to kind of a Hallmark movie where, you know, a native son goes out to the big city or whatever, makes a lot of money and then comes back and saves the local businesses. But who knows what's going to happen now? And fun facts. One of those restaurants that Salem owns, I believe, is where Bob Kraft's and his new wife had their first date. So there's it's all a lot of connections. I think I'm probably forgetting a few. And then, you know, are political connections. Elizabeth Warren, you know, a big critic of the crypto industry, has been out front on that for a long time. And then kind of on the other side of looking at crypto, Congressman Jake Offenclus somebody who is part of the Congressional Blockchain Caucus and is also pretty active on crypto policy as well. He's faced some criticism for keeping donations from FTX executives, but he's certainly not the only lawmaker to do that. Some of them have returned it or donated to charity, but he is someone who is not. [00:21:51][148.1]

Jennifer Smith: [00:21:52] Man asked questions, get answers. Thank you so much. So Stephanie Murray of the BLOCK, thank you so much for joining us to walk us through the. Massachusetts connections. And I don't know. Lisa, do you have more of a sense now about what cryptocurrency is than when we started 15 minutes ago? [00:22:10][17.4]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:22:10] I definitely do. Thank you very much for walking us through this. [00:22:14][3.8]

Stephanie Murray: [00:22:16] Oh, I'll take my podcast payment and the horserace trivia coin. [00:22:19][2.9]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:22:28] The MassINC Polling Group has released a new poll surveying parents of Boston public school students. Here to run us through the findings is our very own poll maestro himself, Steve Koczela. [00:22:39][11.0]

Steve Koczela: [00:22:40] Glad to be here. Thanks for having me. [00:22:41][1.4]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:22:43] So I feel like we ask this a lot on this here pod. How satisfied are parents with the Boston public schools? [00:22:48][5.8]

Steve Koczela: [00:22:50] We do ask it a lot. And part of the reason for that is this is now the fifth wave of this particular poll going all the way back to 2021. And the answer is sort of middle middling. About a third say they're very satisfied, 32% and another half say they're somewhat satisfied. So it's some depends where you cut it. Do you see? Sure. I guess I'm somewhat satisfied as being good. Or do you see that as being something which could be improved on? But you look kind of beneath that. And there are certainly a lot of anxieties that parents are expressing. [00:23:19][29.1]

Jennifer Smith: [00:23:20] So let's get into some of those anxieties, thinking about the physical safety of kids and then emotional well-being. What did you see on those two fronts? [00:23:29][9.0]

Steve Koczela: [00:23:30] Yeah, there we found a lot of concern. So we asked two different questions about that. Basically, how concerned are you about your child's emotional well-being while they're at school? And then the same question for your child's physical safety and found about the same level on each one. It's just about 70% say they're either very concerned or somewhat concerned. So pretty high numbers, honestly, and especially because it's just around 40 or over 40% who say they're very concerned about either one. And we also asked about academics and found there, you know, a fair number said that they thought their child had fallen behind. Most either said that they'd stayed on track or gotten ahead. There's just a lot of concern on a lot of different issues. [00:24:09][39.8]

Jennifer Smith: [00:24:10] And how is that breaking down demographically? Are certain parents more concerned, less concerned? Feeling more confident? [00:24:16][5.8]

Steve Koczela: [00:24:17] One of the things that we found was that particularly Black parents are expressing higher levels of concern in this particular poll. So, for instance, when we looked just at the satisfaction number, you remember 32% overall looking at all parents said they were very satisfied. That number for black parents is 19%. We also broke out the questions on concern about emotional well-being and physical safety and found on both of those Black parents and Asian-American parents, also particularly concerned about both of those issues, really. So looking at physical safety, just comparing white parents, 27% said they were very concerned about their child's physical safety. That's less than half of the 62% of Black parents who said the same about their own child. [00:25:03][45.6]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:25:04] So you've mentioned academic progress a little bit already. How much of this is tied to just trying to play catch up from what is it now over two years of pandemic learning? [00:25:14][10.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:25:15] Certainly a big part of it. And, you know, we've been asking questions like this pretty much going back to the beginning of the pandemic. Some things are certainly true, which is that not enough parents realized that their child is behind or has fallen behind during the pandemic. When you just look at the numbers who think their child is at grade level now or behind or ahead of grade level, it doesn't match up with the actual numbers. And then we also asked in this poll, we asked whether or not parents thought the school was doing enough to help children who'd fallen behind academically to catch up, or if they should be doing more, or even if they were doing too much and found only about half, maybe slightly over half said either enough or too much, whereas the rest either thought they should be doing more or didn't know. And notably, parents whose children are behind were the most likely to say that they thought the school was not doing enough at this point. [00:26:05][50.3]

Jennifer Smith: [00:26:06] And how much is this connected to who's in the classroom? How involved the parents are? I mean, you did ask about, you know, the frequency of substitute teachers appearing in schools, but then also how engaged the parents wanted to be in kind of the day to day of their kids educations. [00:26:21][14.7]

Steve Koczela: [00:26:22] Right. And interestingly, we found parents want to be much more engaged than they feel like they're able to be. So we asked two questions. The first was, how engaged do you want to be with your child's education? And about 80% consistently for the last four waves have said very engaged. But then when we ask the question, how engaged do you feel BPS enables you to be? The number is much lower, only 46% in this wave, which is kind of in line with with past waves. That's also reflected when we ask things like whether or not parents feel like pipes makes it easy to share concerns or that their feedback is valued or other items like that. We just see the same kind of thing over and over again, which as parents would like to have more of an open door, we'd like to be more engaged that they feel like they're able to be. [00:27:07][44.5]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:27:08] And then touching on the methodology of this a bit, you've mentioned that there are now multiple layers of data that are included in this. So tell us how this poll was conducted and the data put together. [00:27:17][9.0]

Steve Koczela: [00:27:18] So this poll was conducted both online and by telephone. We did 850 responses for this particular one. And each wave we've done over samples of black, Latino and. Asian parents. Just to be sure that we've got enough that we can kind of do a comparison and we can, you know, ferret out what different groups of parents might be feeling about different things, as we've already talked about during the segment. [00:27:38][20.6]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:27:39] Well, thanks so much for walking us through all of this. And we look forward to the next wave of results. [00:27:44][4.6]

Steve Koczela: [00:27:47] And that brings us to our final and our favorite segment, which this week is the mailbag. Jenn, what do we have this week? [00:27:52][5.2]

Jennifer Smith: [00:27:53] Okay. Well, we weren't going to insult you. Our beloved listener is by presuming that it is at all trivia why Boston gets a giant Christmas tree gifted from Nova Scotia every year. So instead, we have a request for you. Give us your wrong answers only on why we might deserve a giant Christmas tree from another country every single year, and we'll come up with the best option. [00:28:13][20.6]

Steve Koczela: [00:28:14] But for now, that is all the time we have for today. I'm Steve Koczela, signing off with Lisa Kashinsky and Jennifer Smith. Our producer, as always, is Elena Eberwein. Don't forget to give The Horse Race to review wherever you're hearing this podcast now, subscribe to the Massachusetts Politico playbook. If by some bizarre coincidence, you're not already subscribed and reached out to the MassINC Polling Group if you need polls or focus groups done. But for now, thank you all for listening and we will see you next week. [00:28:14][0.0]

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