Episode 237: Conditions of Transition

12/1/22-- This week on The Horse Race the royals are in town! Lisa delivers a special report after seeing the Prince and Princess of Wales at an event Wednesday. Then Jenn and Steve dive into the news around a potential rail strike.

Later, the team digs into what we can expect from Governor Elect Maura Healey's transition. Then Steph Solis of Axios, drops by the pod to chat about a recent article on a surge of migrants in the state.

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Full Show Transcript Below:

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:00:26] This week on The Horse Race. We're looking at Maura Healey's transition plan and then we're talking about the continued surge of migrants reaching Massachusetts. It's Thursday, December 1st. [00:00:37][10.6]

Steve Koczela: [00:00:50] Welcome back to The Horse Race, your weekly look at politics, policy and elections in Massachusetts. I'm Steve Koczela here with Jennifer Smith. Our colleague and dear friend Lisa Kashinsky will be joining us a bit later and also has a special report. [00:01:02][12.1]

Jennifer Smith: [00:01:04] Yes, we hope you appreciate this and enjoy this because Lisa is out there doing yeoman's work because our monarchist colonial occupiers have returned, I guess, and people in Boston are excited for some reason that if by the tone of your voice is not explaining to you, I do not understand. 250 years later, they're back in Boston, the Prince and Princess of Wales, they've arrived. They're going to get to know Boston. And it's, quote, "ambitious action to combat the effects of climate change" that involves some awards. Lisa, take it away. [00:01:35][30.7]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:01:36] The Prince and Princess of Wales are here for their Earthshot Prize awards ceremony on Friday in a series of events leading up to it. And these are all focused on climate. So they've they're here for a couple of reasons. As the prince said outside city hall Wednesday afternoon, in a very rainy but still, you know, very lively ceremony with the Princess and Boston Mayor Michelle Wu and Governor elect Maura Healey. They've basically chosen Boston for two reasons. One is in honor of the late President John F Kennedy, whose moonshot speech, kind of serves as the namesake for the Earthshot program that they're here celebrating and giving out funding for. And they're also here because of, you know, just the resources that we have in Massachusetts, as the prince said, universities research, that type of stuff and the initiatives that the mayor has put forward and what the governor elect is promising, as she reiterated in her speech. So very fittingly, it is raining in Boston. I am coming to you Wednesday night after the event here. There was a downpour, a very British downpour, people standing with umbrellas, lots of royal watchers on City Hall Plaza, you know, kind of the whole shebang there for the royals. They lit city hall up and other buildings around Boston Green in honor of the climate initiative that they're here for. And yeah royals still seem to be popular in Boston despite the Revolutionary War. [00:03:11][94.7]

Steve Koczela: [00:03:11] All right. Thank you, Lisa, for that special report and other pressing regional cultural news. Well, it should be regional, worldwide cultural news. The U.N. has actually added a food item, the French baguette, to its cultural heritage list. What that means is that it's on the UN's list of, as it puts it, intangible cultural heritage as a cherished tradition to be preserved by humanity. [00:03:34][22.3]

Jennifer Smith: [00:03:35] I love it. [00:03:35][0.4]

Steve Koczela: [00:03:36] Me too. [00:03:36][0.2]

Jennifer Smith: [00:03:37] I have uncomplicated feelings about this. It's not like it's a monarchy. [00:03:40][2.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:03:40] I love bread. I love baguettes. And I think that it definitely should be on this list if it exists, which I didn't know until today, that apparently it does. But it got me thinking that, of course, there are other things, particularly things here in Boston, which are possibly on the list. Specifically, Dunkin Iced Coffee should also be on the U.S. cultural heritage list. So being that I am who I am, I had to, of course, run a Twitter poll, which is apparently a good way of settling disputes like this. And as of this moment, 81% of people that follow me on Twitter think that it should think that Dunkin iced coffee should be on the UN cultural heritage list. [00:04:17][36.5]

Jennifer Smith: [00:04:18] A very scientific poll, I'm sure, reflective of most of Bostonians preferences. Steve, I thank you for this public service. [00:04:26][8.0]

Steve Koczela: [00:04:27] Steph Solis actually replied and said, "Too bad Dunkin stands are overrepresented in my poll. I find that a front on the methodological rigor of this poll to be outrageous and definitely look can talk about it at some time in the future. [00:04:40][12.5]

Jennifer Smith: [00:04:40] Friend of the pod Steph Solis and I are on the same page there. [00:04:43][2.3]

Steve Koczela: [00:04:43] Yeah, well, that's probably fair, actually. So that's what's happening in cultural news. There are also other big things going on, of course, and one of the major serious things that is coming down the pike is, of course, the potential rail strike. Jenn, bring us up to date on what's happening there. [00:04:58][14.9]

Jennifer Smith: [00:04:59] So as is very usual for us, everything is happening at the exact time that we are recording a podcast. So go back in time, dear listeners, to a day before you're listening to this, which is where we are now. Rail unions have been in basically months long negotiations over their contracts. Four of them narrowly voted to reject a proposal this month that had come about after a while of collective bargaining and it would raise wages 24%. But there's a really major sticking point, and that is over adequate sick days for rail workers here. The day of an anticipated shutdown would be December 9th. So that means we're facing the prospect of the first U.S. rail strike since 1992. Fun fact the year of my birth. Every time I mention that, Steve looks kind of sad. Last time, in 1992, Congress intervened and Biden is asking them to do so again now, imposing a contract which would keep the infrastructure running. [00:05:53][54.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:05:55] But it's run into some hurdles already, not least of which are that several of the unions involved are not in favor of the proposed contract, right? [00:06:01][6.7]

Jennifer Smith: [00:06:02] That's right. So the contract that is being put before Congress right now in kind of two different votes is the one that actually labor secretary and local Boston man Martin Walsh was involved in kind of helping put in front of them. So the reason a little bit of context here for why this is such a big deal is if there is a nationwide rail strike, this could be detrimental for all of the obvious economic and social reasons. It could impact freight channels, food supply chains, transport. And Biden, you know. Known by. His loving Amtrak Joe nickname and also notable labor man has actually been kind of taking heat from the left and the right on this because Congress is supposed to be voting while we're recording to either impose the contract as it is now with the wage raise, but without the sick days as it is just to impose that and basically say, go back to work, this is your contract now. But then there's a second vote that's expected to happen that would include more sick days, which might make it through the House, but would be a much tougher squeeze passed the Senate. So we're kind of in this weird spot. I think one bit of context that's useful to keep in mind is actually there's an open letter from a lot of prominent historians that came out today objecting to Congress's interference here. They note that it's a really mixed bag when government interferes specifically in railroad negotiations in the States. Some of that intervention in the past has led to things like improvements like the eight hour workday and others involved, jailing union leaders and serious erosions of workers rights. So it's not an uncontroversial thing for the president to ask Congress to basically break a strike by forcing them to take a contract. [00:07:45][103.0]

Steve Koczela: [00:07:46] Let's hope they do resolve it, because the prospect of a rail strike at any moment, particularly one right now and sort of a tenuous economic situation and headed into the holidays, certainly doesn't sound good. Let's hope that local Boston man Martin Walsh can help to potentially broker a solution. But for now, Jenn, what are we doing here today? [00:08:04][17.8]

Jennifer Smith: [00:08:05] Well, today we are probably going to be dancing around a lot of vague answers to specific questions, because we are talking about Maura Healy's transition plan for when she takes office on January 5th. And then later, aforementioned friend of the pod, Steph Solis of Axios Boston is going to join us to talk about a story on the continued influx of migrants into Massachusetts. So shall we saddle up? [00:08:30][25.2]

Steve Koczela: [00:08:38] Governor elect Maura Healey has built out her transition policy committees. There are lots of familiar names on the list, including many former Horse Race and Mass Reboot guests. So let's get into who's on the team and what they're up to at this point. Lisa, start us off. [00:08:51][13.3]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:08:52] So Maura Healey and Kim Driscoll have chosen really kind of eclectic mix of very familiar faces to a lot of people. There is one time rivals, longtime supporters, major union heads, prominent community leaders and, yes, several Horse Race alumni who are on this hundred plus person list at this point, which, you know, could serve as a venue for potential hires, doesn't necessarily translate to administration jobs, will get that out of the way. Off the bat, some of the big names that have come out in this week's list which is we already knew who the chairs of her I think its six policy committees are. So this is the people who are also serving on the is among the major names. Two former gubernatorial hopefuls, Danielle Allen, the Harvard professor and former state senator Ben Downing, are on committees for jobs and climate, respectively. There is outgoing state Senator Eric Lesser, who lost the Democratic lieutenant governor primary to Kim Driscoll. He has been a noted advocate for East West Rail and he is fittingly on the Transportation Committee. You also have some folks from the Patrick administration who have made it onto this transition committee, including former Lieutenant Governor Tim Murray. [00:10:06][74.4]

Jennifer Smith: [00:10:08] So we always run into the spot here where there's the read that journalists have and there's the read that a member of the public just kind of looking at this list of names might have. So if you're thinking about the way that Maura Healey ran her campaign, the lane that she was putting herself in, looking at this transition crew, it includes a lot of people who ran on the more progressive side, but then also includes a hefty amount of Massachusetts moderate. So what would the reed be if someone was trying to figure out what Healey's posture is going into this new administration? [00:10:40][32.6]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:10:42] I think the best read you can give it is really that is really more paying attention to what she has said, which is that she is kind of been emulating Governor Charlie Baker this whole time. So even though she, you know, kind of made her bones as this progressive prosecutor, you are seeing that mix in her transition team with some of these more, you know, moderate names and people who are subject matter experts, you know, a very baker asked type of thing, not just kind of, you know, political picks to reward, you know, people who have been with her just by kind of giving them an honorary title on a transition committee. [00:11:19][37.4]

Jennifer Smith: [00:11:20] Notably, not on the list of former gubernatorial candidates who are part of the transition would be State Senator Sonia Chang-Diaz. Is that right? [00:11:27][6.8]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:11:28] Yes, she is not on the Healey Driscoll transition team. [00:11:31][2.9]

Steve Koczela: [00:11:32] So we're sort of left reading a lot of tealeaves, which is a familiar place to be in when, trying to figure out what Governor Eliot Healey might do in terms of policy and where she might be headed. You know, we can see some things just based on or guess, some things I guess based on who She's appointed here, but we still really don't know. There's still just a lot of like, I don't know, white pieces of paper, black boxes, whatever you want to call it when it comes to figuring out what she's going to do. Lisa, do you feel like you have any better sense of sort of where it's all headed? [00:11:59][27.6]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:12:00] Not really. And that seems to be on purpose at this point from the Healey Driscoll team. You know, they they have plans. And to be clear, they have put out, you know, lengthy, you know, kind of policy proposals during the campaign that are available on her website that outline what she wants to do with housing, with transportation, you know, education in the broad strokes. But there are some nuggets in there that people can then use to kind of hold her accountable once she becomes governor. And what these transition committees, these policy committees are designed to do is to really fill in those details. You know, she's picked advocates like, you know, reproductive equity now executive director Rebecca Holder. You know, so that signals that, you know, abortion rights protect further protecting and expanding. Those could be of import to the administration. She has included the heads of both of the state's major teachers unions on a committee focused on kind of, you know, youth and young adults. And those are the same people who are going to be at the state House today, delivering their push for making public higher education more accessible. So you can kind of see that there are these major players like Michael Curry from the Community Health Centers is on a committee. You can see the ways that people can kind of get their influence and shape the policies that she's going to have from who she appointed on these committees. [00:13:23][82.6]

Jennifer Smith: [00:13:24] And then the big elephant in Beacon Hill for any incoming gubernatorial administration is that they then have to square off against the legislature, and that has had some prickly relationships than others over the years. Do we have any sense of whether or not part of Healey's thinking is not rolling out something right now that feels like a big pledge that then would run headlong into some sort of objection from the legislature before she even gets into a position to propose it. [00:13:54][30.0]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:13:55] That certainly has to be part of her calculus. You know, she's going to need the legislature's buy in and the legislature leans more moderate. You know, as we know in leadership. And, you know, just because Democrats are going to control, you know, the trifecta on Beacon Hill doesn't mean that this is going to be smooth sailing. [00:14:13][17.7]

Steve Koczela: [00:14:14] Certainly saw that during the Patrick years where, I mean, speaking even specifically of tax reform policies, you know, there was that time when he proposed his big tax reform package and the legislature didn't really know what was coming. And that and the reform package went pretty much nowhere. So maybe, Governor, life is just taking a different path on that. We're going to talk in the next segment about housing. So we have to ask about Governor elect Healey's housing affordability and production plans as well. Do we know anything there about what might be in the offing? [00:14:46][32.2]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:14:47] Very simply build more of it. She talks a lot about housing in in many different facets. She was at an opioid roundtable in her official capacity as AG right now with the governor yesterday talking about expanding housing for vulnerable populations. Expanding affordable housing was the main part of Kim Driscoll, her lieutenant governor's pitch when she was running. I will be honest, I have not looked into all of the specifics of what information is available on her housing plans. But I know that that is one of the things that she has routinely talked about as one of her top issues and biggest priorities. [00:15:25][37.7]

Jennifer Smith: [00:15:27] And I think we also have to kind of include in that mix to the standing question of what's going on with MBTA leadership. Friend of the Pod and Axios Mike Deehan had a piece the other day talking about sort of the approach that Healey is going to be taking going forward, but specifically, as might sound a little bit familiar. She wouldn't say if she'd designate a new transportation secretary or an empty general manager to kind of start with her in January. So a bit of a meta question, Lisa, as you're trying to play Whac-A-Mole with these announcements about kind of transition committee heads, but also try and connect them to sorts of policy planning. Has it felt like there's been a really big shift from the campaign to kind of post-election? Because it does seem as though outside of a few specific big planned policy areas, we're still pretty light on details. [00:16:23][56.7]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:16:25] Yeah. Maura Healey is kind of facing the same scrutiny that she had throughout her campaign about exactly what you said, still kind of being vague about what her plans are. As we've talked about, there's reasons for that. You know, especially you would think that there would be more detail now that she's actually run the race. But, you know, as as you both have pointed out already, there are reasons for holding back with that, including dealing with the legislature. You know, she did meet with Senate President Karen Spilka and House Speaker Ron Mariano. We do not know the contents of those meetings. There were no media availabilities after them, as was kind of customary, at least. You know, Governor Baker had set that precedent. You know, hopefully we'll get the three of them together soon and try and get some details about what their joint priorities might be. But even towards the end of this session, this legislative session, you've seen spoken Mariano have different priorities. So Healey has to navigate the differences, you know, just between the two chambers right now and then, the differences with her own priorities. So while it might be frustrating to not have a lot of answers right now, there are probably reasons for it. [00:17:36][71.3]

Jennifer Smith: [00:17:37] So Healey becoming governor and now Andrea Campbell coming in to succeed her as AG is just one of a big part of a bunch of moving pieces. The government is really shifting around come January. So do you have a sense in terms of the AG's office, do we have more answers on if that's going to end up staying steady in a heelish direction, or are we also a little light on the details over there? [00:18:01][24.4]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:18:03] We are even more light on the details with the attorney general's transition. Andrea Campbell and Maura Healey did sit down, I believe, shortly before Thanksgiving. Again, that was a closed door session to talk about the transition. You know, and not many details on that, if any, were provided to the press about what they talked about. But yeah, I mean, I think that you can expect or I believe that people would expect to see at least somewhat of a continuation in the beginning of more Healey's policies. You know, given the fact that she was a very big supporter of Andrea on the campaign trail, I'm sure the two will work very closely together as the transition gets underway. But yes, we are still waiting to kind of get a better sense of Andrea Kimball's plans, her transition team, you know, her inaugural committee. Those are all announcements that we're still waiting for. Same thing with then exactly as transition into the auditor's office. [00:18:55][52.4]

Steve Koczela: [00:18:56] All right. Well, we are hurtling toward the day when these questions will be answered in one way or another, because Governor Healey will be inaugurated sometime in early January. So we will know at some point. I promise. But for now, Lisa, thanks for sharing what we do know, what little we do know, and we'll keep an eye on this. [00:19:12][16.3]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:19:13] Hope to be more helpful in the future. [00:19:14][1.1]

Jennifer Smith: [00:19:22] Massachusetts has seen an influx of migrants over the past few months from Haiti, Venezuela and elsewhere. With that story, we have Steph Solis, reporter at Axios and many time guest here on The Horse Race. Good to talk to you again. Steph, are you ready to walk us through what's going on with immigration? [00:19:37][14.3]

Steph Solis: [00:19:38] Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. [00:19:39][1.3]

Jennifer Smith: [00:19:40] You recently wrote a piece on the influx of migrants into Massachusetts. So let's get into that at the top level first. Who exactly is immigrating in right now? [00:19:49][9.5]

Steph Solis: [00:19:51] The current waves, we've seen a lot of Venezuelans, Haitians. I believe there are still Ukrainians and Afghans who are coming this way or who have arrived more recently for a variety of reasons. And they're always migrants from from additional countries. But those are some of the ones who are being who we're seeing more of. [00:20:20][29.9]

Jennifer Smith: [00:20:22] And are these migrants coming in for different reasons than other waves of migrants? I think often we end up talking about kind of state response and how well it can be tailored to why a specific group needs aid at a specific time. Obviously, the Haitian earthquake comes to mind. [00:20:36][14.7]

Steph Solis: [00:20:37] Yeah, so Haiti in particular is seeing a lot of political instability and gang violence. But there has been a lot of political upheaval in the last couple of years that have prompted people to flee. Venezuela is a little different, but I know some folks have reported violence and severe poverty as factors contributing to their decision to leave. And I think sometimes it's easy to forget that people might leave for multiple reasons, but every individual has sort of that different trigger that sort of makes them decide whether they're going to stay put or leave. And a lot of people know by now that for Ukrainians and Afghans, we've seen the Ukrainian war play out. We we saw sort of the aftermath of the troops withdrawing. So there has been maybe a lot of high profile cases of of people coming over from that. But a lot of these individuals are leaving very tenuous situations. [00:21:51][73.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:21:52] What's it like then on this end when they arrive? What kinds of needs are they coming with and who are the service providers that are there offering the kinds of assistance that they're looking for? [00:22:01][9.6]

Steph Solis: [00:22:02] So a lot of these individuals are asylum seekers or they might come in as what's called a what's considered a parolee. So they have a certain level of permission from U.S. immigration officials as opposed to someone totally coming in under the radar, undocumented. They are still in need of housing, food assistance. Eventually they get work permits. But in the meantime, you know, they need assistance to get by from one day to the next. And unlike refugees who have all of this lined up after going through a very arduous application process, asylum seekers and others are showing up here and sometimes ending up in emergency departments, or other times connecting with nonprofits who will connect them to applications for food stamps or applications for emergency housing assistance. [00:23:06][63.1]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:23:07] What steps is the state taking and what resources does the state have available to help with this? And tell us a little bit about the supplemental budget that the governor filed to help expand these services. [00:23:20][12.5]

Steph Solis: [00:23:21] Yeah, so if I recall correctly, Massachusetts is a right to shelter state, so they have an obligation to provide housing assistance of some form to people experiencing homelessness and to new arrivals like these migrants. This is coming at a time when there is a huge housing crisis and the emergency shelter system is at 100% capacity. That said, the governor has proposed, I think it was about $130 million. That one part go to setting up some people in shelters and creating centralized intake center so it'll provide wraparound services for some of these new arrivals. That's in addition to 20 million. That was in an economic development bill that was passed recently that said, you know, I imagine if that passes, it'll still take some time to set up those resources because there's such a short supply of housing and any units overall. [00:24:24][63.2]

Jennifer Smith: [00:24:25] One context here, of course, is that Baker has been asking the Biden administration to do a few things, one of which is letting asylum seekers work during the kind of long asylum seeking process. It was interesting, he said in a WCVB interview. It was "until somebody does something about the border, we'll keep seeing people kind of coming in." But then, of course, you also have situations where Republican governors are pulling stunts like the one that involved migrants being kind of sent to Martha's Vineyard without clear explanation about why they were there. So if you're thinking about the different ways that people are kind of coming into the state of Massachusetts and then whether or not they're able to be connected to those resources, does the state have kind of a grasp on that? Or is this mostly falling to local nonprofits to really kind of connect to the people who are showing up to state resources? And is that complicated when, for instance, a plane of people can show up on an island without really notice to either them or anyone on the island? [00:25:30][64.6]

Steph Solis: [00:25:31] I think to the best of their ability, the Baker administration is trying to keep their eye on that, and they are connecting with the nonprofits who have dealt with the bulk of the work here. Where they get involved is responding to the applications for emergency housing assistance, food stamps, mass health. But they can only do so much. And I think allowing asylum seekers to work sooner is only a piece of the puzzle. I mean, immigration attorneys have told me time and time again that the asylum seeking process is very difficult. There is a work permit that is issued during that process, just like there are while people are seeking other forms of relief. But there's such a backlog right now that sometimes it can take several months to be processed. And so I don't know that the federal government would be amenable to an extra waiver for something when this is the way they have handled asylum applications and other relief applications for decades. I just I think there's just too many things happening at once. The immigration backlog, a housing crisis, an influx of people with certain lack of safety networks coming in. So this is what makes it a little more difficult for both state officials and the service providers who've been helping people for years handle this load. [00:27:04][93.6]

Steve Koczela: [00:27:06] And you mentioned that what has become a key issue, which of course, is housing and housing is a huge issue, even, you know, beyond this and an issue where we're seeing massive shortages all across the region and skyrocketing prices. So how is this interacting with the existing housing crisis that we're having? And just thinking thinking about this, particularly today as we're looking out the window at how long winds and coming driving rain and, you know, winter in coming like what are the prospects for dealing with housing needs specifically of the people who are coming in? [00:27:37][31.1]

Steph Solis: [00:27:37] I'll be honest, I'm not I'm not sure. And I'm still trying to get a handle of how this affects the rest of the emergency housing system, if there's any sort of fallout for those experiencing homelessness. But if anyone has an idea of of how this is affecting all those other moving parts in a more nuanced level, I'd love to hear more about that. [00:28:02][24.3]

Jennifer Smith: [00:28:03] Because, you know, part of part of thinking about that interaction as well is the the kind of disparate nature of all of these different nonprofits, all of these different kind of municipal moving parts of your thinking about someone who is in Massachusetts already and is looking to get through emergency housing networks if they're dealing with chronic homelessness, for instance? I think obviously one of the things we're all going to be keeping in mind is are the same pipelines trying to provide housing for everybody. And, you know, to what extent can that involve maybe people slipping through the cracks, especially if they're they're coming in waiting on either work opportunities because they're in the state asylum seeking and that might be a condition for housing or kind of other complicating factors. Thinking about what else you're watching as this kind of continues to unfold over the winter, but also a new administration is we have we have talked before in this podcast, we'll talk again about kind of the the Healey administration being a little bit light on the details for some of its major initiatives. So what are you watching to see if the new administration addresses specifically this migrant housing crisis? [00:29:20][76.9]

Steph Solis: [00:29:21] I would be interested in seeing what an incoming Healey administration does to build up or expand on what the Baker administration has proposed here. A centralized intake center like what Baker proposed with wraparound services is a great idea. But then you run into the questions of where would this be placed if it's placed in a remote area? How are you going to get people to work or to even areas where they could apply for jobs and get health care, get kids to school? All of those things. I mean, that ends up being a larger logistical issue than one might initially anticipate because it's not like a situation where you had, you know, the migrants who were were taken to Martha's Vineyard, where you have to first figure out where are they supposed to land? This is where that group of migrants staying in that center. Is landing. And so it just makes things a lot more complicated as far as the Healey administration's plans. I would also be interested in seeing what I guess what level of involvement they're willing to let the non-profits have, because at the end of the day, yes, everyone wants different things. But these individuals who are providing these services, we're connecting migrants to schools to get matriculated, who are walking them through all of these processes. They're the ones who are dealing with thousands of people coming in every few months, and they're the ones who are going to know where you can actually place people or what the gaps are. [00:31:08][106.7]

Jennifer Smith: [00:31:08] All right. Well, looking forward to all of your future reporting on that. But for now, that's all the time we have. Steph Solis of Axios, thank you so much for being on The Horse Race. [00:31:16][7.8]

Steph Solis: [00:31:17] Thank you. I really appreciate it. [00:31:18][1.1]

Steve Koczela: [00:31:21] All right. And that brings us to our final segment, which this week is mailbag. There has been an explosion of interest. You could say interest is especially high in an article that our good friend Steph Solis, already a guest on this week's podcast, broke this week. It is about Green Wednesday. I've heard of Thanksgiving, Black Friday, Small Business Saturday, whatever. Sunday is Cyber Monday giving Tuesday. Now we're on to Green Wednesday. Steph, what are we talking about here? [00:31:46][24.6]

Steph Solis: [00:31:47] We are talking about cannabis. While there's a lot of money to be made on Black Friday proper. Green Wednesday is sort of considered the unofficial Black Friday for cannabis consumers, where they'll just stock up on a lot of products before before they have to peel off the deal with their families on Thursday. [00:32:06][19.3]

Steve Koczela: [00:32:09] I'm sorry. That's amazing. [00:32:09][0.5]

Jennifer Smith: [00:32:10] I loved your list of of. So you were looking at one of these local cannabis facilities and all of the like treats that they're making before the holidays. And I'm sitting there going like, I don't know, like cannabis or no peanut butter cups or doodles. This all sounds great and very in the holiday spirit. Oh, yeah. [00:32:31][20.4]

Steph Solis: [00:32:31] Well, okay. So the local business owners. I profiled or I visited when I toward their facility. It was really cool and it was like super sterile, like any other food place. But they just had like. Boxes and boxes of this beautiful, high quality chocolate. And I was salivating. I wish they had still peanut butter cups and snickerdoodles. The snickerdoodles. I later learned they couldn't get out of their kitchen face. They couldn't actually mass produce them with cannabis, or it would have been a lot more difficult just because cookies have a shorter shelf life. And so gummies and chocolate bars have been more manageable. And yeah, it's all organic and I'm getting off track here. But it was it was cool to see something that was not only like a high quality cannabis product, but a high quality food product. [00:33:25][54.3]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:33:27] Now you have me trying to think of like, what cookies do have a shelf life. And TBH coming up with like those like hard sugar cookies that they sell at the grocery stores. Also, Girl Scout cookies. [00:33:40][13.6]

Steve Koczela: [00:33:41] Oh, okay. Now we're talking. But we have to I do have to ask because we're all about informing our millions of listeners is Green Wednesday before Thanksgiving so you can brace for the time with their family or is it after Thanksgiving when you can sort of tie up loose ends on your Christmas shopping list? [00:33:55][14.3]

Steph Solis: [00:33:56] Oh, I thought it was before. It's definitely before Thanksgiving. But I mean, theoretically, that shouldn't stop anyone from going Christmas shopping and grabbing a couple of extra cannabis products for their friends and family. [00:34:10][14.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:34:12] Green Wednesday here on The Horse Race. [00:34:12][0.4]

Steph Solis: [00:34:13] Exactly. Restocking for the next holiday. You need stocking stuffers once you get past Thanksgiving, right? [00:34:19][6.0]

Jennifer Smith: [00:34:20] Yeah. I'm really thinking about the impact for all of these holidays. If everyone has, like stoned munchies, you're going to need to make two Thanksgiving dinners. [00:34:31][11.2]

Steph Solis: [00:34:32] There is there is one downside here, though, because and and maybe it's more common in other states. And it's just this is just a Massachusetts thing. I feel like it's it's not just a massachusetts thing, but the state regs don't allow discounts and promotions. And so it's not like on Black Friday or any holiday where other products would be, you know, half off, you can't get anything discounted from cannabis. So imagine how much more popular it would be if those promotions and discounts were allowed. It would be insane. [00:35:05][32.8]

Steve Koczela: [00:35:06] Something for us all to dream about. [00:35:08][1.8]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:35:09] Something for the next legislative session, I suppose. But that's all the time we have for today. I'm starting off with Jennifer Smith and Steve Koczela, our producer, is Elena Eberwein. Please don't forget to give The Horse Race a review. Wherever you're hearing us now, subscribe to the Massachusetts Politico playbook and reach out to the Mass Inc polling group for polls. Thanks for listening. See you next week. [00:35:09][0.0]

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