Episode 229: Shelter Fallout

9/29/2022-- The Horse Race is back after a two-week break! Steve, Lisa and Jenn have lots to catch up on. The seasons have changed, the Orange Line is back, but where are the debates? The team chats about the lack of debates this season and what the Republican party is up against in MA.

Earlier this month, Florida Governor Ron Desantis flew 48 asylum seekers from Texas to Martha’s Vineyard without notifying local officials and or residents. Migrants have been redirected to aid elsewhere on the coast after an outpouring of support from Vineyard residents. Sarah Betancourt of GBH News drops by the pod to fill us in on the latest legal developments of the story.

Full Transcript Below:

Jennifer Smith: [00:00:27] This week on The Horse Race. We're getting caught up after our two week break and then we're looking at the latest with the recent Martha's Vineyard story. It's Thursday, September 29th. [00:00:36][8.9]

Steve Koczela: [00:00:46] Welcome back to The Horse Race, your weekly look at politics, policy and elections in Massachusetts. I'm Steve Koczela. Back after a two week hiatus with Jennifer Smith and Lisa Kashinsky. And we have some big news to report, which is a whole bunch of candidates have been eliminated since we last talked. A whole bunch of new candidates are now in the spotlight. That's right. Folks were, of course, talking about the beginning of Bachelor in Paradise. Jenn, take us away. [00:01:09][23.0]

Jennifer Smith: [00:01:11] See, I might actually be the wrong person to kick it to. I assume that it's a normal part of most election cycles that everyone who has failed to win in a primary gets immediately sent off to the nearest beach to just get absolutely hammered on mai-tais. And then everyone else has to sit there quietly stuck in the depressing and predictable relationships that they've already signed up on. [00:01:34][22.7]

Steve Koczela: [00:01:37] That would be that would actually, I think, probably increase participation and like more candidates running if like the losers got sent to an island to drink mai tais for the summer. [00:01:45][8.2]

Jennifer Smith: [00:01:47] Are we in charge of this? Can we make this happen? Can we call Bill Galvin? [00:01:50][3.0]

Steve Koczela: [00:01:51] I don't know. I'm doubting, actually, that he listens to The Horse Race. But anyway. Yes, The Bachelorette. The experiment with two bachelorettes is over, thank God, as is our discussion of The Bachelor, because there's also a fair amount of other news that's actually happening. The first thing, Lisa, you've written about it a couple of times in The Horse Race is we actually have a bit of a dearth of debates happening this fall, even though it is general election season. [00:02:13][21.9]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:02:13] Very nice alliteration, I will say. Yeah, the great debate debate is still happening and the outcome of it right now is that there are just two debates on the books right now for this fall in every single contested statewide race that I can think of. Maura Healey and Geoff Diehl will debate on October 20th and the auditor candidates Diana Dizoglio and Anthony Amore will face off on October 16th on WBZ. And that's it. No one else has agreed to debate their rivals. Okay, so what is going on here? This happens every single year. We end up just talking about whether or not we're going to see people argue on television. One of them is always opposed to it because they don't want to give their opponent more airtime tends to be the person who's either in the lead or dealing with some kind of news cycle. They don't want to float up to the top. But is this something that we kind of think that people care about as voters, or is this more of a principled news person media debate that we end up having? Because, you know, Steve, Lisa, we always talk about polls. We talk about what actually ends up trickling down to voters. Is there a ton of appetite out there for an auditor debate that we anticipate or is it at this point just it should be good practice to have a debate if you're running for an elected office. And so it should be treated as kind of weird if you don't. [00:03:46][92.8]

Steve Koczela: [00:03:47] I mean, I think you outlined kind of the two main sides of that argument right there. And just to add a little bit more, I think that most of the time debates don't make a huge difference. But every now and then they do make a huge difference. Like you think back to, you know, Scott Brown and Martha Coakley, you know, and just people even now remember some of the lines that came out during that, you know, the whole people seat thing and so forth. But, you know, then there are other debates which people think are important or insiders and media think are important, like Tanisha Sullivan against Bill Galvin, which then, you know, weeks after that, the polls haven't moved even a little bit. So I think, you know, sometimes they matter, sometimes they don't. It does seem like it would be nice if candidates were to get out there and talk to each other. But we also don't really need to kid ourselves that voters have as much interest in watching debates as some of the candidates do and having debates. We've had some pretty high numbers floated out there, like, you know, three debates, five debates, seven debates, you know, for some of the down ballot offices. And, you know, I struggle to imagine voters watching some of those. [00:04:47][60.8]

Jennifer Smith: [00:04:48] It seems like it's a little bit tied in too with this. Lisa, help me out with this this kind of like dull vibe of election season where most races, as usual in Massachusetts are not very competitive even during the primary season. And then once you get out of primary season, it's it's just essentially a slow march to the finish line. So do debates actually fit into this, I guess, structure of of drawing attention to debates that are so the debates basically fit anywhere into a structure of drawing people's attention to races that they kind of look at the news, look at the ballot and say, well, I literally always only vote for this one party and there is only one candidate there. Maybe they've been representing me for the past 20 years and fended off a bunch of challengers. Why would I even tune in to this race? [00:05:43][55.4]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:05:45] Unlike the Boston mayor's race last year, where we had debates, you know, that were kind of on like prime time television or as close to prime time as you can get, you know, in the evening when people are actually home watching TV or eating dinner or something like that. You know, we even saw in the statewide primaries this year, the bulk of the debates were in the middle of the day on radio shows and stuff like that. So it's hard to draw people's attention to that. You just have to be tuning in at the right time. And it certainly doesn't help in, you know, these statewide races are just fading right into the background. The Republicans don't have a lot of money. None of them do. They're not on TV in the closest race. You know, it's probably the one for auditor, the one that could be the most competitive. And that's where we find ourselves. Just over, what, like a month, month and a half, not even before Election Day. [00:06:35][50.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:06:36] Yeah. And I think the money race kind of reflects where the where we see the polling to the extent that there is any you know, there were two polls issued in the last week or so, one from Emerson and one from Suffolk. And neither one really dug further down the ballot than governor. But both of them showed what I think most people expected, which is Democrat Maura Healey has a very significant lead over Jeff deal. And the interesting thing to me, and I'm thinking I may write something about this in the next week or so, is just Democrats have really united around Maura Healey. And that's not necessarily something we've seen in past election cycles, at least not ones where it's been competitive. You know, Scott Brown and even when he lost and Charlie Baker, even when he lost those, pulled a pretty good number of Democrats and even more Democrats than they won. So it's not just the unenrolled voters and Democrats in this race seem really to be rallying around around their nominee. So anyway, you know, we can't make any final predictions, but that's what we're seeing now. The other thing, of course, that Republican candidates are dealing with is just having to figure out what the relationship is with Donald Trump. You know, and that's not unique to Massachusetts. It's something that candidates on the Republican side all across the country are dealing with. Some of them are trying to take a different tack from what they took in the primary when it comes to how they're describing their relationship with Donald Trump, what they're saying about election fraud, what they're saying about 2020, what they're saying about January 6th, you know, all these different topics, you know, play differently when you're talking to a Republican primary electorate than they do when you're talking to a general electorate. [00:08:06][89.2]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:08:07] And now that it's moved to the general election, we're seeing these Republican candidates just try to straight up avoid the topic of Trump. None of them are bringing up Trump. You know, the ones that do align more closely with him, I should say. None of them are bringing up the former president unless they're asked by the media, which they are, and often which is when things get really awkward, you know. Deal is on record saying that the 2020 election was rigged. Jay McMahon on WCVB last week, you know, was kind of questioned about whether President Joe Biden was duly elected. And, you know, question after question after question, he finally says, according to the certifications by the secretaries of state of various states, Biden was duly elected. So it's the super complicated, fine line where they still have to appeal to Republicans, but they have to broaden their messaging. And, you know, they're arguing that when they're talking to voters, that voters aren't talking about Trump and that it's the media that keeps bringing it up. So they're trying to create this distance. And, you know, Geoff Diehl told reporters on Wednesday that he hasn't talked to the former president since before the primary. [00:09:18][71.2]

Jennifer Smith: [00:09:19] But even kind of taking the focus away from the national question of who's in charge of the Republican Party right now. And, of course, Donald Trump is still considered the de facto head of it. So they've got to deal with that question in the same way that, you know, Democrats have to deal with questions about Biden for different reasons, obviously. But here in Massachusetts, it's not like there's a shortage of relevant topic areas that candidates should be slash can be tackling pretty consistently. I mean, not to go back to our deeply beloved well of why can't any of us get on a train that goes anywhere in a timely fashion? But, you know, the orange line is is supposedly fixed, even though it's moving very, very slowly right now. Maura Healey has put out a housing policy, so we'll dig into that in future episodes. Does it seem like there is more substance happening on the Democratic side of the party here where they're not responding specifically to Trump by necessity, but maybe digging into more issue areas? Or has more Healey's focus being kind of as a balm to the kind of Trump polarization just kind of endured into the general election? [00:10:37][77.9]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:10:38] I feel like it's a little bit of both. I mean, there is surface level policy happening on both sides. I mean Geoff Diehl and his running mate were out talking about concerns with energy costs because those are expected to skyrocket this year. And what could be done about that in the economy? Healy, as you said, has put out her housing plan, but all of that is just getting kind of washed over by having to either answer questions about Trump or using Trump as a weapon, you know, against Republican opponents. [00:11:09][30.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:11:11] And of course, beyond that now very familiar names and faces that will be running for the statewide offices, legislative offices and so forth. We also have four pretty significant ballot questions, and we're actually going to be digging into those over the next few weeks with a few segments on episodes to come. But just to quickly give you a preview of what they are. The first one is the so-called Fair Share Amendment or millionaire's tax. And what that one would do for those who are unfamiliar is it would add a 4% surcharge to the portion of incomes that people or businesses make over $1 million. And then that would go if it appropriated by the state legislature to education and transportation. So that's question one. Jenn, what do we have below that? [00:11:50][39.0]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:11:50] Yeah, let's go around in a round robin here. The other one. Ballot question two is on regulation of dental insurance, which would, as you might expect, regulate dental insurance rates. Companies would have to spend at least 83% of their premiums on member dental expenses and other quality improvements instead of spending that on administrative expenses. And there would be some other changes in there. So there is a ton of much more detailed elaboration on the Secretary of State's website. If you want to see exactly what a yes or no vote does on any of these questions. Lisa, you're up next. Talk to us about alcohol. [00:12:23][33.2]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:12:24] Drinks are not on me, but the question three on the ballot is looking to expand the availability of alcohol licenses, specifically the number of licenses a retailer could have for selling alcoholic beverages to be consumed off site along with some other things. And a no vote would just keep everything as it is. And Steve, I think we're back to you. [00:12:45][21.1]

Steve Koczela: [00:12:46] Yeah, I'm looking forward to the questions, two and three, just because what we found when we kind of dug into question three months ago anyway was just the interests that there are on both sides, you know, and kind of why that question is a question. And what's important about it was it's not necessarily intuitive. So definitely looking forward to that. Number four, that is the repeal referendum, which was added just more recently, which would repeal the law that created driver's licenses for undocumented immigrants. So that's another one that would be taken it on just in terms of kind of how that came about and what the processes around that. So those are the four ballot questions that we have coming up. [00:13:20][34.7]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:13:21] So that's a little bit of a look ahead. But first, we have some other things to recap from the past couple of weeks, namely Republican Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, flying migrants from Texas to Martha's Vineyard. So let's get into it. [00:13:36][14.2]

Steve Koczela: [00:13:39] Earlier this month, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis flew 48 asylum seekers from Texas to Martha's Vineyard without notifying local officials or residents. The migrants have since been redirected to elsewhere on the coast after an outpouring of support from Vineyard residents. And so we're now in phase two of the news cycle. How did this happen and was it legal? Here to walk us through the latest on the story is our good friend Sarah Betancourt of GBH News. Sarah, welcome back. [00:14:05][25.8]

Sarah Betancourt: [00:14:06] Thanks for having me on, Steve. [00:14:07][1.1]

Steve Koczela: [00:14:08] So for those who haven't been following the story as closely, give us a quick recap of just what exactly happened on September 14th. [00:14:15][6.9]

Sarah Betancourt: [00:14:16] All right. So there's a group of migrants who were brought to Martha's Vineyard, paid for by a program run by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who is a Republican. So he basically had people in Texas on the ground outside of shelters for immigrants who had just recently crossed the border, and he was recruiting them to get on these planes. So folks were offering things like $10 McDonald's gift cards saying, oh, you end up in Oregon, Missouri, Washington, D.C. and the people there will help you get jobs, housing, education. As we all know, they didn't end up in any of those places. They ended up off of remote island, off of Cape Cod. [00:15:00][44.8]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:15:02] And so Ron DeSantis isn't the first Republican to transport migrants, you know, across state lines. Governor Greg Abbott of Texas has been busing thousands of migrants to Washington, D.C., Chicago, New York City. So why did this one, these flights to Martha's Vineyard, get so much attention? And what was different about this than what Greg Abbott has been doing for months? [00:15:26][24.1]

Sarah Betancourt: [00:15:27] So Greg Abbott and the Arizona governor as well have been bussing migrants north to New York City, D.C. and now Chicago. And in those situations, the migrants have been put on busses or told he should get on this bus. They'll take you here. You have to sign these forms. And in some situations, they they write down a little ID number to track them, quote unquote. In this situation, people were told they were going somewhere and they ended up somewhere else. And so because of the false pretenses, people are saying, oh, this is human trafficking, this is kidnaping. And many of the migrants are like, well, now we're in Massachusetts. But when we were detained by Border Patrol back in Texas to be released, we had to agree to these things called check ins. And those addresses are in many other states. Some are in Oregon, some are in Texas, some are in Florida. And people have to physically be present because if they're not, an order for deportation can turn up and they don't want that. So it's a really stressful situation. And now attorneys are trying to figure out, okay, what are we going to do about Ron DeSantis and the other $11 million he has in his program to continue these flights? And also, what are we going to do about the individual immigrant statuses? [00:16:58][90.2]

Jennifer Smith: [00:17:00] So getting into kind of the messaging coming from more right wing politicians and how it compares to what actually happened, they've been throwing around phrases like. Martha's Vineyard deported these migrants, but they were actually relocated to places with more resources. So walk us through a little bit about how the Vineyard residents responded and then what legal action the state itself or other aid programs took. [00:17:28][28.3]

Sarah Betancourt: [00:17:29] The day that they landed on Martha's Vineyard Desantis's administration that paid for these busses and the bus drivers, according to some of the migrants that I interviewed. And also the attorneys told them, okay, get off the bus, walk in that direction. You see that parking lot over there? They're going to take you in. So that parking lot belonged to a YMCA on Martha's Vineyard and no one there knew who was coming. So a lot of the people there sort of banded together. They found shelter for these about 50 migrants. Pro-bono attorneys and Governor Baker got involved along with this administration and decided, okay, joint base Cape Cod is really well known for housing people in humanitarian situations. In the past, they did it for Hurricane Katrina victims. So why don't we offer migrants the opportunity to go there and sort of get resettled from there? And as a group, the migrants decided we want to stick together and go there. But it was by choice. And some of them do want to end up back on Martha's Vineyard. There's been a few reports on that. Other people want to go to other states. Some want to end up in Boston, but it's sort of up to a lot of the nonprofits and refugee resettlement agencies to figure out, you know, first, what to do about housing, because housing is a problem in Massachusetts across the board. [00:18:54][85.4]

Steve Koczela: [00:18:56] So those are some of the actions then that the administration took sort of officially and the things that they put in place to help the migrants that actually landed. What is Charlie Baker himself said about this? What how does he seem to be reacting to just the action itself that Ron DeSantis took, sending these migrants to Martha's Vineyard? [00:19:14][18.3]

Sarah Betancourt: [00:19:16] First off, I've been asking the Baker administration for about a week before the Martha's Vineyard incident about migrants from the New York busses from Texas to New York City, ending up in Boston hospitals. And the administration had no comment. I was aware that the Department of Transitional Assistance was being referred several migrants from Texas. So now this Martha's Vineyard situation happens and an administration is scrambling because now they're in the media spotlight and they can't afford it. And they also have to figure out housing for all these folks and services. So in the past few days, I mean, I think it's been really strategic. He has not directly criticized Ron DeSantis. And I think part of that is the Baker administration hoping he doesn't send more people because he absolutely can. He has another $11 million in that program and in Baker has sort of put the onus more on the federal government for not dealing with some of the strains and resources in Texas, on the border where people, border communities are always strained when it comes to people crossing the border, even though there's been less people since the pandemic began. So it's been really interesting to see that. I mean, he says he hasn't spoken to Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. I think that was as of a few days ago. And Ron DeSantis obviously took credit for that transport. And as another Republican governor, Baker said, he was glad that a Texas sheriff had launched a criminal investigation into the incident. But it's it's really interesting that the most that's the worst thing just Baker had to say about the two Santas was that it was a really lousy thing to do. And he called for national immigration reform. But beyond that, it was sort of a lackluster response if you're looking for sparks to fly between two Republican governors. [00:21:19][122.7]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:21:20] And part of the reason he said that to on GBH just the other day, as you know, he's been watching Republicans and Democrats running for president, teeing off on each other over this. And Baker is, as he says, not running for president in 2024, apparently. And, you know, so he doesn't want to get involved in this and keep steering this again back to national immigration reform. But, you know, turning to now the legal fallout from this. Some of these migrants have sued Ron DeSantis and other Florida state officials. Tell us more about that. [00:21:54][33.6]

Sarah Betancourt: [00:21:55] So lawyers for civil rights is suing Ron DeSantis and transportation officials. So transportation officials in Florida are the ones procuring the money and sort of paying the contractors like a flight, for instance. So they're being sued by lawyers for civil rights on behalf of a group of the Migrants and Alianza Americas, which is a transnational group that sort of does a lot of immigration advocacy. They would like to see an injunction, a national injunction that stops the Florida governor from sending immigrants north and the so-called relocation program that's pending right now. I looked at the docket last night and there weren't any updates from last week. However, on a one by one level, for the past two weeks, there's a cafeteria on joint base, joint base, Cape Cod, and that's where the immigrants are getting pro bono legal services. So a lot of immigration attorneys hustled up there. And beyond the civil suit that lawyers for civil rights is is working on. They have individual efforts to figure out, okay, so you're not undocumented anymore. Your case is pending because now you're in the system. So what do we do next? How do we help you stay here legally? And most of the migrants are in the process of filing for asylum. But along with that, many of the immigrants attorneys are saying, we're going to apply for a U via after that. [00:23:29][93.6]

Jennifer Smith: [00:23:30] What exactly is a U visa and why would that be the thing that they're applying for in this scenario? [00:23:34][4.4]

Sarah Betancourt: [00:23:35] So a U visa is a legal immigration status for non-citizens who suffered of substantial medical or physical abuse because of a criminal activity or they have information about an activity. And so a big part of that is that they have to be cooperative with law enforcement officials investigating a crime. So right now, the Texas there's a Texas county sheriff who's investigating, performing a criminal investigation into Desantis's actions. And attorneys have been calling for Attorney General Maura Healey and U.S. Attorney Rachel Rollins to do the same in Massachusetts. And that opens the door for the immigrants to cooperate, to be like, okay, here's an affidavit. I'm going to tell you what happened to me. Or at least my attorney will give you that form and tell you what happened to me. And it was wrong. And so as long as they cooperate, they can apply for a visa. Now, the problem with a U visa is that it takes it could take years to get you don't get work authorization right away. And the benefit of getting it is that you get it for four years, you can extend it. And it also gives you the right to apply for a green card, which is permanent residency. And all of that can take a few years. So attorneys are sort of taking this multipronged approach like let's apply for asylum as well, because these people truly fear going back to their country, which is amid political and economic turmoil. But also, they were the victims of a crime, they say. So it may be crazy that the the way they were brought here through Ron Desantis' actions might be the thing that keeps them here legally. [00:25:20][104.9]

Jennifer Smith: [00:25:22] And you did mention, of course, Attorney General Maura Healey, who is running to replace Charlie Baker. Has there been much of an update since about a week ago where reporters asked her, do you think that a crime has been committed here? And she didn't really answer. She gave a pretty similar response to Governor Baker, saying, we're focused on, you know, adapting and adjusting to this new influx and and getting them settled. But she's still the attorney general here. Has there been any update on whether or not she intends to pursue criminal charges of some form? [00:25:56][34.7]

Sarah Betancourt: [00:25:57] So as of a couple of days ago, her office said it's reviewing information related the situation. It's in touch with federal and state partners. Rollins office didn't provide any comment. But I know she'd made some comments in the past, I believe, To the Globe, the day right after they arrived on Martha's Vineyard, saying that, you know, this is a good thing and that she's interested in seeing what other states are doing about the Texas and Arizona messes north. But yeah, it seems to be at a like they're treading water and it's going to be interesting to see what happens next because it could have a direct impact on the immigration statuses of the migrants. [00:26:39][41.6]

Steve Koczela: [00:26:40] All right, Sara Betancourt of GBH News, thank you so much for keeping a close eye on the story and dropping by the horse race to give us an update. [00:26:46][5.9]

Sarah Betancourt: [00:26:47] Thanks for having me. It's great to see you guys again. [00:26:49][2.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:26:57] All right. And that brings us to our final segment, which this week is Pony Express, as we often do here on The Horse Race. I asked Twitter a question, a very important question, one that divides Massachusetts right down the middle or perhaps in thirds. And the question was this. It's 48 degrees outside. This was a couple of days ago. Now time for the great Massachusetts debate. When is it okay to turn on the furnace for the very first time? And I have to say, as three transplants, none of us being originally from Massachusetts. This is a near religious question for people who are from Massachusetts. [00:27:28][30.8]

Jennifer Smith: [00:27:30] It is wild. People have very strong opinions on this. I don't know. I like it kind of chilly, but I certainly wouldn't be, you know, chasing someone out of the house with a hose or a flamethrower if they had a very slight difference of opinion on the thermostat. But that's clearly my non Massachusetts native self speak. [00:27:48][18.1]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:27:48] Yeah. Like, am I still sleeping with the window cracked at night? Sure. Like, do I leave it open so my cat can sit in it? Of course I do. But like, eventually when things start freezing and I can't feel my toes at night through socks, I might add, I don't have the best circulation in the world, but like so don't come out before that. Like, I'm talking with socks and like pants tucked over, you know, the ends of my feet or something like that, you know, those like old jogger pants or whatever. [00:28:12][23.3]

Jennifer Smith: [00:28:13] Like, yeah, I'm learning a lot about Lisa today. [00:28:15][2.0]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:28:15] You know, eventually cave in, turn on my heat, like, gosh, you know, I have humans and animals to protect in this house. [00:28:22][6.9]

Steve Koczela: [00:28:24] But for some people, it's the calendar. That's the thing. It's the calendar. It's not whether or not your toes are frozen or like, you know, your cat's water ball is literally frozen over. Like, none of those things are the things that decide it for some people. So here are some of the things that people said. Michael Jonas of Commonwealth magazine said, When your fingers can no longer move in the water glass, you put on your bedside table as a block of ice after it. Many time trivia winner said Thanksgiving. If you have soft guests so that there's one, there's one for the calendar. Paris Allston of GBH News said When you put on multiple layers to stay warm inside. Renee Graham said again, going back to the calendar idea in September, the furnace needs to mind its own business. So definitely the responses kind of broke down like this. There were some who said some specific date, and if it was later, that meant that you yourself are more hearty. You're a New Englander, you're virtuous, you're authentic. Others just said later, usually because my dad said that not to be sexist or anything. That's just what the tweet said. The third one was later, because people like sweaters and flannels, and by gosh, you should, too. And then others, I think, were more, you know, easier on themselves and just said, as soon as I'm cold. So that's kind of how things broke down. [00:29:39][75.1]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:29:39] I will clarify that even in my own brain, I do go by the calendar model in which I try and make it as far as humanly possible into October and November as I can before turning on the heat. But I've also been through those late October blizzards here, and if it's blistering outside my apartment, probably going to turn on the heat. [00:29:58][18.3]

Jennifer Smith: [00:29:59] I just worry that a decent chunk of Massachusetts is just mid-October, shivering in freezing apartments, clutching giant dunkin's iced coffees. And I was like, Maybe you'd be warmer if you would just get a cup of hot coffee. You can't say that they're going to cover it. I'm so sorry. You can't get me. I'm virtual. Lisa, take us out. [00:30:19][20.0]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:30:19] Oh, gosh. Yeah, I think. I think we're all getting canceled. But luckily, before you all can come at us with pitchforks or I guess ice forks because we don't like heat here, I'm thinking of flames. I don't know. Anyway, I'm Lisa Kashinsky signing off with Steve Koczela and Jennifer Smith, our producer is Elena Eberwein. Please don't forget to give The Horse Race a review wherever you're hearing us now, if you're still listening to us after this discussion, subscribe to the Massachusetts Politico Playbook and reach out to the MassINC Polling Group for polls. Thanks for listening and we'll see you all next week. Hopefully not frozen. [00:30:19][0.0]

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