Episode 200: Voting reforms & Everybody’s running

2/3/2022--- This week on the horse race, Jenn, Steve, and Lisa discuss their brushes with the 24- hour record-breaking blizzard that hit the northeast this past weekend.

Shifting to the many races of 2022, Boston City Councilor Andrea Campbell announced her campaign for Attorney General. Lisa spoke with Campbell about how policing reform fits in to the Attorney General’s office.

Meanwhile, in the race for Massachusetts governor, GOP candidate Geoff Diehl made waves as he hired Corey Lewandowski as a campaign senior advisor. Trump’s old super PAC & South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem cut ties with Lewandowski last fall after allegations that he made unwanted sexual advances toward a Trump donor at an event.

Steve shares the results of a new statewide poll stacking up Democratic primary candidates. Many voters are undecided but as of now, Maura Healey has the biggest swath of likely Democratic primary voter support of all the announced candidates. The survey asked people their support of issues such as rent control and early college.

Today's guest is Tanisha Sullivan, NAACP Boston Branch President, visits The Horse Race to share why she is running for Secretary of the Commonwealth, and what she'll do to expand voting rights and increase transparency in the state government.

Full transcript below:

Jennifer Smith: [00:00:27] Today on The Horse Race candidate for secretary of the Commonwealth, Tanisha Sullivan, shares her vision for voting reform in Massachusetts, and a new statewide poll looks at the Democratic primary and also other issues. It's Thursday, February 3rd. [00:00:41][14.1]

Steve Koczela: [00:00:50] Welcome back to The Horse Race, your weekly look at politics, policy and elections in Massachusetts. I'm Steve Koczela here with Jennifer Smith and Lisa Kashinsky. And based only on the fact that I can see you on Zoom, I assume we all survived the snowpocalypse. How are you all doing? [00:01:04][13.5]

Jennifer Smith: [00:01:04] I, you know, I actually have mostly been enjoying the fact that there is now no duration of storm for which New England will not lose its mind. This was literally 24 hours and we were gearing up like we were about to cross the Alps. It was insane out there. Where was the bread? [00:01:24][19.3]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:01:25] It was gone. And you know, over here, I'm still in it because I refused to move my car because I don't want to lose my parking spot because I am not in the land of space savers. And that's over at this point anyway. So if I can't walk there, I'm not going there until more of the snow melts. [00:01:43][18.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:01:44] It was kind of crazy going to the store also, because there were such weirdly specific things that they were out of. Like, there was definitely the French toast thing going on like every storm. For some reason, New England just like lays waste to the bread, eggs and milk in the store, but also like chicken stock pasta. Like, what are you all doing? You're going to be home for one day. You need to, like, make broth to warm yourself in case I don't know. [00:02:08][24.2]

Jennifer Smith: [00:02:10] I love it. I just I think part of the part of the interesting thing, too, is every time a storm like this hits, you realize just how diverse the landscape of Massachusetts is, where they're kayaking out in the streets of Nantucket. But then kind of in the middle of Boston, it's just mountains and mountains of snow, and everyone's stuck inside. So I hope everyone stays safe, warm and at least your power stayed on, I think is where we're at. [00:02:36][26.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:02:36] That's that's kind of the standard that we shoot for here and in 2022. But speaking of 2022, of course, we are now kind of zooming into that into an election year and we're starting to gather candidates. Jenn, we have a new one today. What's going on? [00:02:51][14.9]

Jennifer Smith: [00:02:52] Yeah, that's right. We're right now kind of nearing what's likely the end of candidate announcements for statewide office, mostly because everyone in the universe is already running. But we have another big one today that we'd been expecting. Former Boston city councilor slash mayor of Boston candidate Andrea Campbell announced this morning that she is going to be running for attorney general launched in Dorchester. Lisa, you had the story up bright and early in playbook and talked to Councilor former Councilor Campbell. So what is she running on? [00:03:26][34.1]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:03:27] Yeah, so she had been signaling this for a little bit and filed with the party last week, and now she is officially in just ahead of the caucuses, and she's basically looking to take the issues that she ran on as mayor. You know, greater equity in opportunity, breaking down barriers and, you know, kind of everything that she talked about in her mayor's race. That's what she's going for. For Attorney General. She sees the scope of this office as broader than just trying cases. She wants to tackle education, economic opportunity issues, affordable housing. She wants to keep up the work with the opioid crisis that the current state attorney general, Maura Healey, has been doing a lot on climate justice. You know, there's a whole bunch of things she's really kind of trying to expand the purview, at least in her words of what that office can do. [00:04:16][48.9]

Steve Koczela: [00:04:17] Jen,n one of the things we heard a lot about in Andrea Campbell's run for the mayor of Boston and even earlier on when she was a city councilor, of course, is about police reform. And she'll be coming at this from with a lot of different responsibilities if she's elected as A.G.. So how she been talking about that so far? [00:04:31][14.7]

Jennifer Smith: [00:04:32] Well, one thing to keep in mind is it's very early days of this campaign, and I think part of the question that she's going to be getting a lot is going to be on exactly that topic. She highlighted during pretty much all of her prior races and her time as city councilor that she and her family have had a lot of experiences with kind of the failings of the criminal justice system, particularly in Boston. And also, it's going to kind of come up against the fact that the job of the attorney general is not just to be prosecuting cases. As Lisa mentioned, you know, Andrea Campbell has said she doesn't just want to be out there in court pushing for for kind of the things that one would expect. But a big part of the job is you're not just the people's prosecutor, you're also the state's attorney. So if something goes wrong with the state, if a state employee you know the governor's office, if they do something that gets them put into court, it will be the responsibility of the attorney general to defend them. And obviously you have some leeway there. But she hadn't so far. And Lisa, you can correct me if I'm wrong because I know that you. You chatted with Andrea Campbell about this. But she hasn't actually put policing at the top of the list of priorities for attorney general when it was essentially as far as many Boston voters were concerned, her top priority as a mayoral candidate. [00:06:01][88.4]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:06:02] So what she told me is that she brings a unique record of accomplishment on ensuring that officers and police departments have the resources they need to do community policing, while also ensuring there is greater transparency and accountability. That is her early response to how policing reform fits into the Attorney General's Office. [00:06:21][18.7]

Steve Koczela: [00:06:21] And of course, we did polling on this and released it last week and found Andrea Campbell is a pretty significant lead over both Quentin Palfrey and Shannon Liss-Reardon, her sort of potential opponents. Lots and lots of time in this one. Lots of people who haven't made their mind up. But that's kind of where this one stands, looking up the ballot a little bit. There's also a little bit of news from Geoff Diehl, of course, the GOP candidate for governor. Lisa, you've got the story. What's going on there? [00:06:46][24.9]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:06:47] So he brought in Corey Lewandowski, a big player in Trump world, across his previous campaigns. And his PAC fell out of favor a little bit over the fall after there were some allegations that he made unwanted sexual advances towards a Trump donor at an event out in Vegas. Trump's old superPAC had cut ties with him. So did South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem. But now he's back in Massachusetts. He does have ties here, of course, as well as with New Hampshire, and he has come on now as a senior adviser to a campaign that's getting increasingly Trumpy from Geoff Diehl. [00:07:24][37.1]

Jennifer Smith: [00:07:25] Well, on that question of just how Trump is in fact this race going to get, I think there's been a certain amount of discussion in the media landscape in Boston around. Is there still an appetite for kind of someone labeling themselves as an outsider to the political establishment and whether or not deal would even fit into that role, whether or not that there is that appetite? Trump remains very unpopular in Massachusetts, isn't that right? [00:07:55][29.3]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:07:55] Yeah. I mean, he had some of his worst showings, you know, in any state in both of his campaigns in Massachusetts. So this is a strategy that was born out of the need to win a GOP primary likely against, you know, at the time, the thought was Charlie Baker, obviously moderate governor and Trump enemy, you know, but now it's also kind of where the state GOP and you know, the GOP nationally, some argue, are at, you know, the question is, of course, as you know, we're getting at is, does this extend beyond our primary? It certainly gives more a four foil back since she lost one a bit when Trump left office and she couldn't see him anymore. So it's definitely a question of, you know, can Corey help with fundraising? Can he bring a little bit of that national star power to this campaign to kind of help deal against a Democrat who's proving to be an absolute juggernaut in fundraising so far? [00:08:47][52.1]

Jennifer Smith: [00:08:48] And of course, there's so much more when it comes to elections and voting reform, and Steve, you got into all of that with Tanisha Sullivan. So let's listen to that, shall we? [00:08:57][8.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:08:57] Let's go. [00:08:57][0.2]

Steve Koczela: [00:09:06] NAACP Boston branch president Tanisha Sullivan is now running for secretary of the Commonwealth. Sullivan, raised in Brockton and now a Hyde Park resident and promises to champion policies that protect, defend and expand voting rights in Massachusetts and across the country, as well as ensuring the transparency and accessibility of public records. She joins me today on the horse race to talk about the campaign that lies ahead. Tanisha Sullivan, welcome to the horse race and thanks for being here. [00:09:31][25.0]

Tanisha Sullivan: [00:09:31] Thank you for having me. I'm excited for this conversation. [00:09:34][2.6]

Tanisha Sullivan: [00:09:35] So tell us why you decided to run. [00:09:36][1.3]

Tanisha Sullivan: [00:09:37] Well, I think it's important for folks to know that I enter this race. With now nearly 20 years of legal practice, corporate legal practice under my belt. Two years serving in our public schools as the chief equity officer, the first chief equity officer for the Boston Public Schools and now five years, having served in a volunteer capacity as the president of the NAACP. Boston And each of those experiences have truly brought me to this decision in this moment. I have I've worked closely with with small businesses and major corporations alike that are trying to improve and increase economic opportunity. Here in the Commonwealth, I have seen up close and personal the challenges that we face in our education system and of course, in our public education system and of course, through the work of with the NAACP. I have not only seen up close, but have been working deeply in in with community to address the challenges we face the education, economic opportunity, climate and health care and of course, voting rights front. [00:10:57][80.2]

Tanisha Sullivan: [00:10:58] And so as I look across our country and see and hear what is happening with respect to our democracy, the fact that we are still fighting fighting in a very divisive way at the national level for for voting rights advancement, what is clear in this moment is that all eyes are on the states. And so as I have done in every other aspect of my life, to this point, I could not sit on the sidelines. I do believe that this moment in our democracy demands more, demands more from our government, demands more from our elected officials and really demands that we are not just thinking about the work of the Secretary of State's Office and its administrative function, but really leaning into the power of that office to not only help to champion and advance voting rights, but to truly open up democracy. So yes, that is. That does include greater transparency with our public records, but it also includes identifying ways that that office can more actively and intentionally meet the needs of everyday citizens on bread and butter issues like economic inequality. So that's why I'm running for to help open up our democracy and have this office. The Secretary of State's Office be more active and intentional in and being the type of support it needs to be for our future. [00:12:39][101.3]

Steve Koczela: [00:12:40] So let's then zero in on kind of how the office has been run and your ideas for the future and how those would differ. What are some ways that you think your you would approach the office differently than how it's been approached over the over the last couple of decades or issues that you would choose to focus on or policies that you would choose to pursue again, that are different from kind of how things have been done in the past. [00:13:01][20.9]

Tanisha Sullivan: [00:13:02] Yeah. Well, first, my approach to governing is informed by my life experience, right? So whether it is my corporate legal practice, the work that I've done in BEPS, in our public schools or the work that I've done in community, both with the NAACP and other nonprofits. What I've learned is that our government has to our government has to be connected to our communities. And I can't think of any office, any elected office in our government that is more important in helping to serve as a bridge, a connector between the residents of the Commonwealth and our government. And so first, I believe that the office must transform to meet this moment and not simply be or solely be the place where you go for administrative functions. It can no longer continue to be in office. That is functional in nature, right? Administrative in nature. It has to evolve to that to provide the much needed supports that residents are clamoring for in order to more effectively engage with government. So the first thing is I believe deeply that this office has to take a more active role in public policy public policy as it relates to voting rights, advancement, public policy, as it relates to a civic engagement and the transparency of our public records and public policy as it relates to economic opportunity. [00:14:53][110.7]

Steve Koczela: [00:14:54] You mentioned economic opportunity, which is a different way of thinking about, I think, the secretary of State's Office than has traditionally been and the reality. What specifically could the Secretary of State's Office do to it reach toward the goals that you're describing? [00:15:08][14.3]

Tanisha Sullivan: [00:15:09] Absolutely. So for those who don't know, the secretary of State's Office is the place you have to go. It's the door you must go through if you want to do business in Massachusetts. OK, that's everyone from your main street business to your global conglomerate has to go through the Secretary of State's Office. And historically, to this point, it has been the interaction has been administrative in nature. So you so you register your business and you pay your you file your annual reports and you pay your fees through the office. That's the beginning and end of it. Where I believe there's an opportunity is for the office to be more to provide greater support to, for example, our small businesses, our microbusinesses, our neighborhood businesses from the beginning of the process all the way through. So from helping our small businesses better understand their choices as it relates to the registration of their businesses to ensuring that our small businesses, our main street businesses, have access to the technical supports they need in order to be successful, there's absolutely no reason why the Secretary of State's Office is not providing actively providing connecting supports for our small businesses to help them compete and thrive here in the Commonwealth. [00:16:40][91.4]

Tanisha Sullivan: [00:16:42] I know from my from my corporate practices, I've provided pro-bono services to small businesses, the very real challenges that that folks have getting started. My mom started three businesses small businesses over over over the past several decades. I've seen firsthand the challenge when what happens, when you have a great idea, you want to launch out on your own, but then you're confronted with the complexity of process. We've got to do better and we can do better. I also think there's an opportunity for this office to be more intentional in understanding the challenges that families are facing across the Commonwealth. We've got a very real housing crisis here in the Commonwealth. Right. The cost of living is only increasing and it's impacting families every day. [00:17:42][59.9]

Tanisha Sullivan: [00:17:44] I believe that the Secretary of State's Office should be taking a more active role and seeking to identify ways in which we can help to address our housing crisis here in Massachusetts. But it doesn't stop there. My point is in 2022, as we look forward in creating the type of democracy that we all deserve as we look forward to the Commonwealth continuing to grow, we need every office, every constitutional office being proactive and intentional about finding ways to meet the needs of residents across the Commonwealth. We can't. We can no longer accept armchair governing. We can no longer accept that, you know, we're just going to our elected officials in their offices are going to be administrative in nature. We need everyone working together so that we can deliver on the opportunities for all of us that we deserve. [00:18:56][72.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:18:58] Having formed a small business here for the MassINC Polling Group, I can certainly identify with the complexities of the processes that you're describing. Some of it, though, some of what you're describing, I think, currently lives elsewhere in state government, correct? I mean, some of the agency functions would some of what you're describing seems like it would be currently done elsewhere in state government? Would it mean reorganizing in some way or like pulling additional functions into the Secretary of the Commonwealth's office? [00:19:24][26.4]

Tanisha Sullivan: [00:19:25] I'm so glad you asked that question. It's important for folks to know that the Secretary of State's Office, the Secretary of the Commonwealth, is the chief, not only the chief elections officer, she is the chief information officer. Right? And so I don't think that there is necessarily a need to restructure government, but there is a need for this office to take a more active role in ensuring that information is accessible, information is transparent, and that we are providing our residents with the tools they need to be able to use the information that is available. This office can and should be must be a chief connector for residents across the Commonwealth in order again to help ensure that we are all able to benefit from the opportunities that exist here. [00:20:25][60.2]

Steve Koczela: [00:20:26] All right, fair enough. Well, let's then move on to the other big function, of course, of the Office of the Secretary of the Commonwealth. And of course, that is elections and voting. One of the big conversations right now, of course, is around same day voter registration and that we have seen this come up in the Legislature and under discussion and in the news media just in the last week or so. I mean, the argument against doing it has been that we might not have enough resources to get it actually implemented effectively. Where do you come down on same day voter registration? [00:20:56][30.2]

Tanisha Sullivan: [00:20:58] Look, same day voter registration exists in 21 other states across this country, including our sister New England states. This is an area where we are behind. We're not breaking new ground here. This is-- this is not something new. We are behind. And so we need to get this done. I do believe that it is important as we enter these policy conversations and have these policy debates that we are keeping an eye on. Of course, the advancement of voting rights, tearing down barriers to voter access wherever we can, but that we are also keeping in mind what's needed from an operational standpoint. OK. Because a reform that's passed without support is going nowhere. And so as the Legislature debates this particular issue, first and foremost, we just need to get it done because we are behind. Second, as part of the debate, we have to ensure that there are supports resources provided to our local elections officials officials so that they are able to actually operationalize the reform. That is a critical piece of this [00:22:21][82.8]

Tanisha Sullivan: [00:22:23] Across the country of course, there have been many laws which are aimed in various ways that at restricting or diminishing access to that to the ballot box, that's been less of a problem here in Massachusetts in terms of kind of passing bills that are actively trying to undercut the franchise. But what are some ways where where we're not there yet? What are some things that Massachusetts other than same day voter registration still needs to do to kind of catch up to where we need to be, in your view? [00:22:47][24.9]

Tanisha Sullivan: [00:22:48] Yeah. So I appreciate that framing because I think we're we're in dangerous territory here. It is easier to identify and call out the suppression efforts that we may see, the active suppression efforts that we may see, let's say, in Georgia, Texas, Florida or Arizona, for example. And I think what's important for us here in Massachusetts to be mindful of is that we can't be complacent when it comes to voting rights. We are. We are a young democracy where a fragile democracy, we are an evolving democracy. And so it's critically important that we're not just on guard for voter suppression, but that we are actively championing voting advancement. OK, voting rights, advancement. And so in order for us to be in position to advance voting rights and to lead on voting rights, we do need to catch up. Fortunately, our state legislature is currently debating some very critical voting rights legislation. The fact of the matter is we have had advocates on the ground for literally decades fighting to bring to our Legislature for to be for consideration, mail in balloting, extended early voting, Same-Day voter registration and the like we here today in this moment experienced in 2020 because of a global public health pandemic. We were able to experience mail in balloting. We were able to experience extended early voting. And what we found was that the advocates have been right all along. [00:24:42][113.5]

Tanisha Sullivan: [00:24:43] Having mail in balloting, having extended early voting actually does increase voter participation. And so what we have to do now is ensure that we make those things permanent. We've got to make mail in balloting permanent. That is something that they have in Georgia. We're behind, we've got to make we've got to ensure that we are extending early voting opportunities for folks getting those timelines down so that every eligible voter has every opportunity to participate in our democracy and we've got to catch up on same day voter registration. But the last piece I want to put in here from a up standpoint, Steve, is that, you know, we live in a time when people are moving from place to place, whether we're talking about students who are moving about the Commonwealth or we're talking about families that are moving about the Commonwealth. We have got to catch up here in the Commonwealth with respect to our participation in some very basic national efforts relative to transferring a voter registration status. It should not be that every time you move, the onus is on you to reregister. [00:26:14][91.5]

Tanisha Sullivan: [00:26:15] There is absolutely no reason why in 2022, your registration isn't following you. And so we've got to catch up there as well. Hopefully that will happen this year. We've got to keep our eye on our legislature to ensure that the Votes Act is actually signed into law. It is something that we will continue to champion as we have prior to the pandemic and now through the pandemic. But in terms of advancing voting rights, we've got some conversations to have right now. There is a very lively conversation happening in municipalities relative to lowering the voting age and giving municipalities the authority to lower the voting rate age. If they so choose to do so, choose to do so. There are conversations we need to have about language access for our ballot, for the ballot box. Of course, as we become an increasingly more diverse community, it's important that we're ensuring that all people who have the right to vote have access to the ballot. So there is there are many conversations that we need to have here in the Commonwealth to advance voting rights and to include more people in the franchise. But first, we do have to catch up. [00:27:38][83.0]

Steve Koczela: [00:27:40] All right. Well, we unfortunately have to leave it there. There are many more questions that I wish we had time for. NAACP Boston Branch President and candidate for Secretary of the Commonwealth Tanisha Sullivan. Thank you so much for joining us today. [00:27:51][11.5]

Tanisha Sullivan: [00:27:52] Thank you. [00:27:52][0.3]

Jennifer Smith: [00:27:56] A new statewide poll from the MassINC Polling Group looked at some of the races coming up this fall, so we are moving Steve over to the hot seat from the commentator seat since I guess, you know, why not? Pleasure to have you on. Steve Koczela what was this poll about? [00:28:11][15.2]

Steve Koczela: [00:28:12] Thanks, Jenn. Thanks for having me here on the horse race. Always a pleasure to be back. This was a statewide poll, so we looked at registered voters in general, and there are some questions, some policy questions that we asked everybody that we'll talk about a little bit. Some really interesting stuff there. And then we also screen down to Democratic primary voters. So, you know, a lot of the big races, a lot of the big contests this year will take place in September and the primary rather than in November in the general election. So that is that was one of the big things that we wanted to get done with this poll. [00:28:44][31.3]

Jennifer Smith: [00:28:44] So we now have two races that look like we're pretty much staring at a full field. So why don't we start with the governor's race? What did you find there? [00:28:54][9.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:28:54] So among Democratic primary voters, we found Maura Healey looking very strong. We found her the best known of the candidates and also the one with the highest support level, about half of Democratic primary voters. And the way that we defined them here said that they would support Maura Healey and 11 percent, said state Senator Sonia Chang-Diaz, and then three percent for Danielle Allen. That still is a pretty good number of undecided voters, and it's also just sort of worth pausing here and saying that many more of these voters are undecided than call themselves that today. So voters in primaries tend to change their minds much later on in the process than they would in a general. You know, there's more potential candidates who are kind of within their ideological sphere. So they could, you know, wake up in August and kind of tune in and change their mind. Then, you know, whereas when you're talking about a general election with a Republican or Democrat, opinions get fixed much, much earlier on in the process. [00:29:47][53.5]

Jennifer Smith: [00:29:48] And these poll results to, I think it's worth pointing out, are pretty consistent with what we've been seeing in terms of donations and fundraising. Lisa had a good run down thread on OCPF reports and also reports from the candidates themselves. But you are, of course, seeing, you know, Maura Healey really bringing in a substantial amount of money. And the other gubernatorial hopefuls doing pretty well. But she's still very clearly is like the power player in the room at this moment, both in polling and with money. What about the race to replace her? We talked about Andrea Campbell up top, but you want to delve into that poll a little bit more. [00:30:27][38.9]

Steve Koczela: [00:30:28] Sure. So former Boston City Councilor Andrea Campbell, with quite a significant lead there, just about 30 percent, just over 30 percent support there compared to Quentin Palfrey and Shannon Liss-Riordan, each down in the single digits. So she starts off, certainly in terms of polling as the favorite. There are two. There's even more voters who really haven't made up their mind. And that's particularly true when you look further away from the city of Boston. So, of course, as a candidate for Boston mayor and former Boston city councilor, she's much better known the closer into Boston you get. And that's where a significant portion of her support actually comes from. And then when you get further out, there's even more voters say that they haven't really haven't settled on a candidate yet at this point. [00:31:11][43.1]

Jennifer Smith: [00:31:12] So what's your take away from that? Is it basically that this is still a pretty wide field? People have plenty of time to kind of make their mark? Or are these looking something along the lines of what we would describe as a very hard bar to surmount? [00:31:26][13.8]

Steve Koczela: [00:31:27] Well, it certainly is that you certainly have front runners at this point and their front runners by a considerable margin. There are cases in recent history where someone has has come back from from pretty far behind at this point in the year. You know, we think back to 2006 and Deval Patrick, for instance. But it does, I think, show us where the race is right now and that these two candidates do have a pretty big advantage at this point. You know, one of the one of the pushbacks that we often get when we do polling early on in a campaign cycle is, well, that's just name it. In other words, that's just showing the candidate that the most people have heard of is the candidate that the most people are supporting. And that's true to an extent here. It is true that Maura Healey is the best known of the gubernatorial candidates. But the thing I think that that misses is that is that there's no guarantee, really, that other candidates will become better known. [00:32:19][52.0]

Steve Koczela: [00:32:20] You know, you look back to 2014 and the two best known candidates running for governor then were Charlie Baker and Martha Coakley. They were the two that eventually went on to win their respective primaries. So and even much later on, you know, there were other candidates who were still not not known by half or more of the electorate. You look at 2018, for instance, and Jay Gonzalez was did not have a favorable or unfavorable view among more than half of the electorate, you know, and he was the Democratic nominee, and this was October. So you name it matters, as I'm going to say on that and. That the idea that we're only measuring this one thing and that that thing doesn't matter, I think is is is not right. [00:33:01][41.5]

Jennifer Smith: [00:33:02] And at the very least, you know, this is kind of a helpful cue, I think, to candidates who are trying to isolate, for instance, where their bases of support are aren't. Obviously, most of them have a good strong idea if they've run for office before. But you know, if you're Andrea Campbell and you're looking at this, I'm sure you're saying, Well, this is great. I probably don't have to worry about much more in Boston other than pushing for turnout and continuing to make sure that my face is in front of them. But if you're looking at a western Mass, I've got to do more out there. So you know, you'll never get a knock on the value of name recognition polling from me. But we did not just ask, did we about names? You also asked about things that matter to people, issues just going to start off with our rent control here. You asked about whether or not people approve of changes to rent stabilization. [00:33:56][54.4]

Steve Koczela: [00:33:57] That's right. We did. We asked. We've asked this question now a few different times and in different polls and in different ways. And what we found basically and asking that all those different ways is that it really does matter a lot kind of how you phrased the question in this particular one. For instance, we found support somewhat lower than where we found it in the past. We found 41 percent saying that it strongly or somewhat support rent control in this particular, framing 49 percent. So a little bit more opposing it. And the way that we asked about it in this time in this particular case was that the Legislature is considering changing the law to let local governments pursue rent control policies under rent control. Local government set limits on the rents or rent increases for privately owned housing in their city or town. So that's how we asked about it in this case. Then you go back to the city of Boston and all the polling we did there, kind of in the run up to the mayor's race and we found there depending on how you asked it. Support ranged from 36 percent at the very lowest, up to 82 percent at the very highest. So it really just makes a huge difference how you phrase the question and kind of what you're asking about. [00:35:04][66.8]

Steve Koczela: [00:35:05] So I think the thing to kind of take away from that is that as the Legislature discusses it, there's a lot of room to influence how voters feel about it. This is not something where there's very hard battle lines drawn and everybody knows, you know, if you're talking about, you know, say, abortion, for instance, we've been talking about it for decades. Everybody knows exactly where they stand. Rent control is not like that. It really does matter kind of how you phrase it, how you set it up. And support can vary greatly depending on those things. [00:35:32][27.4]

Jennifer Smith: [00:35:33] To what extent do we see a partisan divide as much as that might or might not matter here? [00:35:38][4.9]

Steve Koczela: [00:35:38] We do see a partisan divide here, for sure. You know, it certainly is. You'd rather be on the democratic side if you're looking, you know, at any issue in Massachusetts, but you do see it, you do see a partisan divide here. So for instance, among Democrats, we see 52 percent support. That's compared to 13 percent among Republicans. So a huge gap there. And that's, you know, we'll see that, I think, play out to it as it's discussed in the Legislature. The thing to note, of course, always is that independents make up the majority of voters here in Massachusetts and among registered independents or unenrolled voters, 40 percent support there. [00:36:14][35.2]

Jennifer Smith: [00:36:14] Hmm. And I know another thing that you were looking at in this poll that was very interesting was the question of early college. What did we see there? [00:36:21][6.4]

Steve Koczela: [00:36:21] Yeah, that's one where I think we're probably going to be hearing a lot more about it, kind of as as the policy world rolls on. It's something that has broad bipartisan support, you know, both in the Legislature and among voters, you know, so we gave a pretty detailed description of what early college actually is and found that that across party lines, 88 percent support among Democrats and 81 percent support among Republicans, with a majority of both saying that they strongly support the idea. So lots of support for early college, which I think is also kind of reflected in how you see both the Legislature and the governor's office, you know, speaking of it very positively and I think looking for ways to expand it. [00:37:03][42.0]

Jennifer Smith: [00:37:04] Great. Well, Steve, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy podcast hosting schedule to be a podcast guest. I'm sure there will be polls in the future. [00:37:13][9.3]

Steve Koczela: [00:37:15] Just this once. Let's hope let's cross our fingers. [00:37:15][0.2]

Jennifer Smith: [00:37:15] OK, so we'll never have you back on again. We're going to have our producer Libby, just sub in for you and all of these future ones. How's that? [00:37:21][6.3]

Steve Koczela: [00:37:22] Let's do it. I like that idea. And that brings us to our final segment, which is something to watch. Of course, everybody who follows silly games that we all play and talk too much about on Twitter knows this week that the New York Times paid. I think the phrase was in the low five figures for the wildly popular [00:37:40][18.8]

Jennifer Smith: [00:37:41] seven figures,. [00:37:41][0.3]

Steve Koczela: [00:37:42] Seven figures?! [00:37:43][0.5]

Jennifer Smith: [00:37:43] Seven figures. [00:37:44][0.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:37:46] Seven figures. That's wild. OK, I got out to press the trivia now. OK, so if they're selling their sort of low seven figures and that, of course, urged us to think, what could we get for our beloved game played by millions all across Massachusetts? Of course, that is trivia. So we we were thinking about putting trivia up for the auction block, but got some pushback from a long time player, Ari Ofsevit, who posed some, I think, probing legal questions. Jen,n what do we got? [00:38:13][26.9]

Jennifer Smith: [00:38:14] Yeah, I think, you know, Ari raises the cogent point that as the majority stakeholder of our extremely valuable asset, the horse race trivia section, he might have an objection to us carrying through with what had been this week our plan to simply sell trivia to an undisclosed major media corporation. We were looking at the low two figures at this point, but if Ari thinks he can beat that offer, I mean, ten dollars. [00:38:43][29.2]

Steve Koczela: [00:38:44] Yeah, I mean, he's got it's got to be in the hundreds of thousands of trivia points, so it will force us to resolve the long standing questions of what the monetary value of trivia points actually is. [00:38:54][10.0]

Jennifer Smith: [00:38:55] So and what the actual rate of exchanges between trivia points and horse race quess and buttons and stickers, I assume are those are those are version of an NFT market. [00:39:05][10.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:39:07] We could sell episodes as NFT is. Can we do that? [00:39:09][2.3]

Jennifer Smith: [00:39:10] Oh, oh no. OK. Oh no. I'd like to place my resignation in right. [00:39:14][4.0]

Steve Koczela: [00:39:15] All right. We're getting a little far afield here, so why don't we call it a day? Because that is actually all the time we have for today. I'm Steve Koczela here with Jennifer Smith and Lisa Kashinsky. Don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you listen to your podcasts. Subscribe to the Massachusetts political playbook and ping us here at the Mousing Polling Group if we can help you out with polls. Thank you all for listening this week, and we will see you next week. [00:39:15][0.0]