Episode 233: The Nightmare Before Redistricting
10/27/2022-- This week The Horse Race gets spooky right in time for Halloween. The thick fog we've experienced in Boston this week has helped to set the tone. The team dives into a few down ballot sheriff's races at the top of the show as election day approaches.
Next, we're joined by Chris Lisinski of the State House News Service to run us through the latest happenings on Beacon Hill. From transportation woes to climate change, incoming elected officials will have a growing to-do list.
Later, Gintautas Dumcius of the Dorchester Reporter drops by the pod to run us through the latest updates from the city council redistricting process.
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Full Show Transcript Below:
Steve Koczela: [00:00:32] This week on The Horse Race for checking in on what's up on Beacon Hill and then getting into the weeds on Boston's redistricting fight. It's Thursday, October 27th. [00:00:42][9.0]
Jennifer Smith: [00:00:50] Welcome back to The Horse Race, your weekly look at politics, policy and elections in Massachusetts. I'm Jennifer Smith here with Lisa Kashinskyand Steve Koczela. And it is spooky, foggy, moody outside. The Globe forecast reporter says this kind of dense fog that we're seeing in the air is only something that happens like five times a year. And as a Bay Area native, let me tell you, I used to have really strong, positive feelings about fog. And then I watched that one episode of The Crown about the weird fog that passed through London and killed everyone. So that's where my head is at. Lisa, you look so sad right now. How do you feel about the foggy weather? [00:01:27][36.8]
Lisa Kashinsky: [00:01:28] It makes me sad. Oh, I miss Summly. I have to absorb the sunlight before the dark days of winter. I mean, everyone in New England is perpetually vitamin D deficient. I mean, just like, go to your doctor and get your bloodwork, and it will show you that without fail. [00:01:43][15.6]
Jennifer Smith: [00:01:44] I'd like to conduct a very small Horse Race co-host poll here, which is how Halloween is your street right now? Because I am about to start putting limits on how many skeletons can go on one house. Mine is out of control. [00:01:58][14.0]
Steve Koczela: [00:01:58] The house across the street from us has the hall like graveyard skeletons, you know, spooky cobwebs. They actually have, like, videos that play, like, in the windows on Halloween night, like holograms, sounds fog, you name it. So it's the it's the house that all the kids want to stop at and the parents of little kids, like walk all the way around the block to avoid because it, you know, scares the crap out of like the little two year old trick or treaters that there are, you know, just trying to go around and their little ghost costumes. [00:02:27][28.5]
Lisa Kashinsky: [00:02:28] I only have one on my street. No, I live one in one of those neighborhoods where parents take their kids elsewhere to go trick or treating, probably to the houses that you just described. [00:02:37][8.7]
Jennifer Smith: [00:02:38] I mean, I would like to say one of my fondest Halloween in Boston/Dorchester memories right around the subject of parents moving their kids to different neighborhoods to really stock up is at one point then-Mayor Marty Walsh caused a whole kerfuffle on his block because he decided to hand out king sized candy bars that year. And all the other parents and pals on that street were just like, You're making us look bad. Stop it, stop it. So he did, in fact, have an entire tray of king sized candy bars. So I would like to know what Michelle Wu's plan is for getting in on the mayoral candy game. I don't know if any reporters listening to this have a plan to call the mayor and ask her what size candy bars their house gives out. But I would just like to say it does cause conflict inside a block. [00:03:31][52.6]
Steve Koczela: [00:03:32] That is a great question. I wish we knew some reporters who could ask the mayor of Boston that question. [00:03:36][4.2]
Lisa Kashinsky: [00:03:37] I just you know, I'm not sure where we can find those reporters, but I guess we'll have to start looking. [00:03:41][4.2]
Jennifer Smith: [00:03:42] And this is this is a public call. Anyone know any reporters? But is there a non Halloween news that anyone cares about today? I don't know. I mostly I'm just worried I'm going to get overwhelmed by a fog machine like I did last year. I was just trying to drink like some mulled cider on the porch, and every once in a while there would be a gust of wind. And suddenly I was in an actual cloud of dry ice smoke. So we are going to not relive that. [00:04:10][27.9]
Steve Koczela: [00:04:11] There is, in fact, other news, Jenn, as there often is, despite the fact that we prefer to be just talking about Halloween and potentially that very important, momentous event, return of Love is Blind on Netflix, which this this podcast certainly has a history with, and also new episodes of Bachelor in Paradise. But we are not going to talk about any of those things because we love and respect our audience. So what is in the news this week? Well, one of the things that stuck out both here in Massachusetts and beyond is that National Assessment of Educational Progress scores were released. They basically look all across the country and break it down by state and break it down in many other ways and look at how basically student achievement has changed over the years. And I think to nobody's surprise, there was a drop, but to everyone's dismay, there was a huge drop from scores basically pre-pandemic to post-pandemic. So certainly a lot to dig into, a lot of kind of head scratching, a lot of thinking to be done about what it means, where it came from and what we should do from here. One of the things that it, of course, set off was a round of hot takes that kind of re-warmed all of the things that people had been saying since the beginning of the pandemic about school closures. You know, that, of course, then breaks down along party lines for all kinds of reasons. But it's actually not entirely clear from this data that that remote schooling actually was the main driver, in the sense that school districts that did more remote schooling or came back later didn't necessarily see a bigger drop than those that came back sooner. It's also possible that just the disruptions of COVID or the traumas of COVID were part of the causes of all of this. But I think there's just a lot more to get into. And the temptation to kind of rush to conclusions and say, see, this is what we've been saying all along is probably not going to get you to a good and well-informed place. So there's my hot take. But there's also a lot of other things going on. Jenn, we've got some elections we're keeping an eye on. [00:06:04][112.5]
Jennifer Smith: [00:06:04] That's right. It might shock people because of the lack of intensity and excitement that everyone has around election season this year. But there are a few down ballot races that we haven't been keeping as much of an eye on on the podcast, even though we've been keeping an eye on them off of the podcast. So today we're going to talk about two sheriff's races. Lisa, walk us through what's going on in Bristol County. [00:06:25][20.6]
Lisa Kashinsky: [00:06:26] So this is actually probably one of the hottest down ballot contests in the state right now and certainly the one that's getting the most attention probably outside of its region. We have Attleboro Mayor Paul Hearoux, challenging long time Republican incumbent Tom Hodgson for the Bristol County Sheriff's seat. Hodgson many of you are probably familiar with him. He's a right wing Republican, has held the seat for about 25 years now. And of course, he's been the subject of controversy over immigration. He's faced complaints about standards at his facility and particularly over inmate suicides, which has come up again recently in the news. But he brings, you know, a quarter century of experience to the table, which is one of his main arguments against his challenger, who worked in the Philly prison system, but has spent most of his career in various roles in government, from the Patrick administration as a state representative and then as mayor of Attleboro. And one of the things that makes this race so interesting is how outside groups are just pouring money into this. You know, especially for, again, a down ballot sheriff's race. So you have the Working Families Party has put in 163,000 roughly for Paul Harrow. There are digital ads running from Everytown for Gun Safety in support of Paul and in opposition to Tom Hodgson. And then on the other side of it, you have the Baker Aligned Mass Majority Super PAC that's spending on behalf of the incumbent who regularly touts his endorsement from Governor Charlie Baker. And they've spent about $32,000 on digital ads, too. So it's just a lot of outside forces trying to influence an already very contentious sheriff's race. [00:08:14][108.6]
Jennifer Smith: [00:08:16] And then we also have been keeping an eye on the Barnstable Sheriff's race as well. If it sounds like suddenly you're hearing about a lot of law enforcement races that seem to be mirroring kind of the same issues over and over again. I've got bad news for you. It's not going to sound very different now that we're talking about Barnstable, the Cape Cod Times. And here is your local pitch to go read your local journalism. The Cape Cod Times has been really great at covering both the Barnstable Sheriff's race, but also the race for Cape and Islands D.A. So they hosted a debate with the candidates State Rep Tim Whelan, Republican and then Democrat Donna Buckley. And they pretty much split on issues that have been coming up around law enforcement all over the country. Specifically in Barnstable, they disagreed on whether to continue this unique ICE agreement. You know, the Barnstable Sheriff's Office has a specific arrangement with Immigrations and Customs Enforcement that is pretty unique among the country. So they did disagree. Whelan said that he would like to continue that program. Buckley says that it should be discontinued. They also split over how they would be addressing disparities around women's specific kind of rehabilitation services. And also they differed slightly on the importance of actively taking on diversity and inclusion. With the Democrat pushing harder on kind of taking into account historic disparities in not just staffing, but also treatment for women and people of color inside the prison system. And next week, we'll be diving in a little bit more in the same way into some local district attorneys races. But that brings us to the question, because it is not next week yet. It is not even for you the day that we are recording this. So, Steve, time has no meaning. I don't know what day it is. What are we doing here? On whatever day it apparently is. [00:10:07][112.0]
Steve Koczela: [00:10:09] We don't know. But we figure as long as we're together, we might as well look at what we should be watching. When it comes to the legislature, as the new legislature and the new administration and all the other new state officials take office. And then after that, we'll be walking through the latest updates as the Boston City Council gets ready to vote on new redistricting maps. So, shall we ride? [00:10:27][18.8]
Lisa Kashinsky: [00:10:28] Giddy up. [00:10:28][0.3]
Jennifer Smith: [00:10:35] We've been talking about the upcoming election, but now we're going to look at what those newly elected officials may be faced with when they take office from transportation and housing woes to growing energy and climate concerns. The to do list is growing, frankly. Here to walk us through what we should be watching and state government is Chris Lisinski of the Statehouse News Service. Thanks for joining us on The Horse Race, Chris. [00:10:57][22.0]
Chris Lisinski: [00:10:58] It is always my pleasure. [00:10:59][0.8]
Jennifer Smith: [00:11:00] So top of the list, the speediest trains known to mankind. Let's talk about transportation and the MBTA. What is the latest on the slowdown? [00:11:09][9.4]
Chris Lisinski: [00:11:11] Those orange line slowdowns that so many riders are grappling with are here to stay for probably another month or two, at the very least. Steve Poftak, the GM of the MBTA, actually disclosed some specific dates and information about what everyone who is riding the T has noticed since that 30 day shut down that trains, particularly north of the city, if you're heading north of North Station or southbound into North Station, are still really slow, in some cases slower than they were before the shutdown, designed to speed the whole system up. There's five different slow zones on the northbound side and five others on the southbound side that still remain in place today, Poftak said. Some of which will undergo additional maintenance and repairs in the coming weeks through November in a couple of cases, even into December, before they can be lifted and allow trains to move through the area at full speed. So long story short, buckle up because it's going to be a slow ride for probably another month plus at this point. [00:12:10][59.9]
Steve Koczela: [00:12:11] And how about for the future of the T? What are we looking at in terms of where it goes potentially after the election? And I ask particularly because we heard and read the statehouse news that former Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood said, quote, If you want to start at ground zero, the timing is perfect for that right now politically because you're going to have new people in these chairs basically talking about, you know, starting all over. What does that even mean? And how are officials here in Massachusetts taking it? [00:12:38][26.6]
Chris Lisinski: [00:12:39] It's a really open and kind of fascinating question. You know, you look back over the past year and it's been, I think, much more crisis management mode, trying to to get the T at least to a semi functional state after a series of issues and get, you know, federal scrutiny off our backs immediately. But it seems like the doors opening to some to at least considering more transformative options. As Ray LaHood noted yesterday in that hearing you referenced, come January, there's going to be a brand new governor, whoever wins in November. Brand new governor is all but certain to replace Steve Pontiac and the other senior leadership at the to name a new transportation secretary. So there's going to be an entirely new team in place. And it seems like there's a good chance that lawmakers are at least open to the idea of rethinking how is the MBTA set up? What kind of an agency do we need to run? Subways, busses, ferries in and around the greater Boston area? We've heard for even a few months before Ray LaHood suggested this from at least one lawmaker, Rep Bill Strauss, who chairs the transportation committee, that maybe we should splice out some of the duties that he has today and give them to someone else like we did with the old I think it was Massachusetts Turnpike Authority back in the day that no longer exists has been sort of subsumed and replaced by Massdot. So, you know, no one has laid out an actual game plan. But and I think yesterday Strauss said again that he's willing to think, quote, provocatively about this. So there's there's certainly a chance for a complete top to bottom reimagining of how the entire system will work. That doesn't mean a top to bottom reconstruction of the system. Let's be clear. No one is proposing actually demolishing all of the infrastructure and building brand new infrastructure. But from an administrative and logistical standpoint, it does seem like we're inching closer to at least debating some of these big questions. [00:14:40][121.3]
Lisa Kashinsky: [00:14:42] I can see on Jenn's face that we could talk about this all day, but for a timing sake and a change tacks a little bit. Or should I say tracks a little bit? Yes. I see your face there, Jenn. So I want to talk about something that came up also this week that some folks, about roughly 50 state workers might be getting their jobs back after initially not complying with Governor Charlie Baker's vaccine mandate. And I wrote a little bit in Playbook about what that could mean, you know, for who the next governor is. But what could that mean for Beacon Hill at large? What could the legislature be facing with this? [00:15:14][32.1]
Chris Lisinski: [00:15:15] Yeah, it's a really good question. And this I don't mean this to sound as contrarian as it might, but I just don't think the legislature will care all that much about it, given their past history and how they've gone about their their business. Several state agencies are still facing worker shortages and bringing on another 50 people who in the past hadn't complied with the vaccine mandate might help fill a few of those, but it's not really going to be sort of a transformational step, especially if, as the Baker administration says, it's not going any further than just these roughly 50. So I don't imagine there being too many repercussions in the legislature since they really like to take their own approach and operate by their by their own rules, rather than take too many cues from the way that the administration is handling its own workforce. [00:16:09][54.0]
Jennifer Smith: [00:16:11] And on the housing front, because, of course, we have to talk about all of these things are sort of fundamentally connected here, not just in terms of of priorities, but also because a new gubernatorial administration is probably going to have to take either a new tack or take up these kind of old battles every single time. You wrote up a brief on the Greater Boston housing report card, which just came out today. We've been seeing kind of push back in recent weeks over the Baker administration's new housing policies. What is housing look like in kind of the Boston metro region right now? And how is that going to interact with the way that the new governor will have to kind of approach dealing with the ever present housing pressures in Massachusetts? [00:16:53][42.1]
Chris Lisinski: [00:16:54] Yeah, I think by most any metric you use, any way you slice it, the housing market is just in dire condition. There's nowhere near enough housing available for the number of people we have here in Massachusetts, particularly in the eastern end of the state, the greater Boston metro region. The housing that is there is increasingly unaffordable where among the highest rent prices in the state. Some new data presented at the Boston Foundations event shows that the the income you would need just to afford a lower level house has jumped some $50,000 a year over the past two years alone. So this is really a a slow rolling emergency. You know, Charlie Baker has called this a housing crisis. Lawmakers have called this housing crisis for years. And whenever the next governor takes office, it remains unfinished business. There have been some reforms made in recent years, as the report card points out. There's been some modest progress toward building new housing. We're on track for a pretty modest goal the Baker administration set, but it's certainly still not enough to relieve the pressure that so many renters and homeowners are facing these days. So I would expect that to continue to be one of the biggest issue areas that both the next administration and the legislature are going to have to tackle come January. [00:18:14][79.1]
Steve Koczela: [00:18:15] Certainly the to do list for the legislature as long as we come, as we sort of look forward to the new session and the new administration. But before we get there, of course, there is an election and most of the elections are not contested. As your colleagues at Statehouse News have pointed out, there are a couple of quite interesting races. So, Chris, which ones are you specifically keeping an eye on? [00:18:34][19.0]
Chris Lisinski: [00:18:35] I think the top one that I'm most interested in is for a Senate seat just west of Boston, currently held by Senator Becca Rausch. She's a Democrat who I believe won that seat from a Republican and now faces a challenge from a sitting Republican rep, Sean Dooley. That's one. It's a pretty competitive district. And, you know, if you look at the Senate's minority caucus right now, it's only three Republicans. It's the point where bringing on even just one more can really change. The dynamic of how Senate Republicans operate, can change the way that their you know, their voice is heard in the Senate. And also, given how few districts Republicans are challenging and overall, that's one that they might look at as probably their best chance to pick up a seat as they face the risk of losing other seats elsewhere. So that's probably my top one that I'm watching for the for the general election. You know, as is always the case, we've got several new faces that are going to be decided regardless of which party wins it. We've got several candidates who have been sitting in the House for a while running for four Senate seats. Given the I guess you could say it's a little bit of a larger than usual exodus from the Senate this term, given how many people ran for four statewide office. So come January, the legislature is going to look pretty different. I want to say it's something like one in every eight seats or one in every nine seats will be held by a new lawmaker when the the 2023, 2024 term starts. [00:20:03][88.0]
Lisa Kashinsky: [00:20:04] That's a pretty impressive stat given how long some people hold on to their seats on Beacon Hill. I want to ask you about this odd vacancy in the first Essex House district where there are two write in candidates running. Talk us through that one. [00:20:19][15.6]
Chris Lisinski: [00:20:20] Yeah, this is a this is one that's really so odd because of the the election timeline at place most recently had been held by Jim Kelcourse of Amesbury, but he departed to join the parole board per Governor Baker's nomination. And because he left so late in the cycle, there was no chance for four other candidates to get their names formally on the ballot to replace him. We wound up getting right in races to seal the field, and the Republican who won the write in race actually topped another write in candidate who had been among, you know, far right activists, had been one of the organizers of Boston's Straight Pride Parade, which ended up drawing a lot of attention toward the race for, you know, an individual state House race doesn't typically draw that much attention. But in this case, given the oddity of the. The timeline and the candidates involved. It's it's certainly one to watch. [00:21:14][53.8]
Jennifer Smith: [00:21:16] There is a dynamic in that first Essex seat, too, that you're seeing kind of across the state right now in varying forms, which is a little bit awkward and weird, which is that the kind of strong favorite for next governor is endorsing at odds with the very popular current outgoing governor. So what are you keeping an eye on in terms of, you know, a Healey versus Baker endorsement race as anything more than just the Democratic candidate endorses Democratic candidates or their? Is there something kind of substantive that a voter might be paying attention to as to why either party is weighing in? [00:21:52][36.4]
Chris Lisinski: [00:21:53] Yeah, I think that there's there's it's sort of like a Venn diagram. You know, there are lots of races where Healey has backed someone that's opposed to the candidate that Baker has backed. And that comes down to the simple Democrat and Republican partizan nature of it. But there are other areas where Healey's stayed out of actually. You know, we go back to the Roush and Dooley race. That's one in particular that, you know, Healey has not been a vocal supporter of Becker Rausch, despite their mutual involvement in the Democratic Party. Despite. You know, I think that they align on quite a few individual issues. But she stayed pretty quiet there, maybe because it is such a competitive race and also because Healey's really trying to appeal to a lot of Baker voters. You know, Charlie Baker remains incredibly popular with unenrolled voters who, as Steve knows, make up the largest share of those who will cast ballots this November. And so in a certain way, you know, he'll his endorsements have, like much of her campaign, a pretty cautious tone to them, where she's endorsing people who are very clearly Maura Healey allies, where voters wouldn't be all that surprised to see them aligning and kind of staying out of a couple other races where she might sense some kind of political risk in getting involved. [00:23:10][76.9]
Jennifer Smith: [00:23:11] And I think the thing that we want to also keep an eye on as usual in these is who actually shows up and decides to vote is always the question of the hour. Secretary of State Bill Galvin said we should expect some lower turnout, possibly because of the lack of intensity. What was going on there? [00:23:29][17.5]
Chris Lisinski: [00:23:30] Yeah. You know, I wonder if some of this goes back to just the way that the race has unfolded. You know, Healey didn't really face a primary challenge after all of her opponents either withdrew or remained on the ballot, but had stopped campaigning months before primary day, Jeff Diehl was unopposed on the Republican side. There's no incumbent seeking reelection bringing sort of, you know, a long term popular face to it. And voters just don't seem all that engaged. You go back to some of the polling done before the primary or even in days, days, not even weeks, days before the primary elections, lots of the statewide candidates had pretty high rates of voters saying, I don't know who that is. I've never heard of them, despite, you know, blanket ads and mailers and all of the coverage you see across the board. [00:24:22][51.9]
Jennifer Smith: [00:24:23] All right. Well, that is all we have time for today. Chris Lisinski of the Statehouse News Service, thank you again for coming on to walk us through what is happening under that golden dome. [00:24:32][9.2]
Chris Lisinski: [00:24:33] Yeah, of course. [00:24:33][0.3]
Jennifer Smith: [00:24:41] Redistricting is consuming the Boston City Council these days. And for those trying to track different potential maps flying around, delayed votes and even the people in charge of the redistricting project changing it can be a lot to get your head around. So I have helped to break it down today Gintautas Dumcius, managing editor at the Dorchester Reporter. Gin, thank you so much for being here with me on what turns out to be not a map voting day. [00:25:03][22.4]
Gintautas Dumcius: [00:25:04] That's right. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's been it's it's been a roller coaster since basically the the September primary, which had absolutely nothing to do with redistricting in terms of timing and had quite a lot to do with it. [00:25:15][11.1]
Jennifer Smith: [00:25:16] Exactly. So let's start easy at the jump. The new census kicks off a redistricting process every decade. So how does that usually go in Boston? [00:25:25][9.3]
Gintautas Dumcius: [00:25:26] Well, usually the city of Boston is very upset because there's an undercount and they usually file challenges. But in this case, they still have to use the numbers that the census came up with to basically create nine equal city council districts. And it's partially based on population. It has to have each city council district now has to have 75,000 people. And South Boston is has grown by more than 10,000 people, in part due to the seaport while Dorchester has lost population. So District two, which is South Boston based and Districts three and four, which are Dorchester and Mattapan, those lines have to shift. Those boundaries have to shift. And, you know, it's become an intensely personal process for a lot of the councilors because, you know, they grew up within those boundaries. You know, they there's there's people who who don't want to switch councilors or or they like the way things are. The other consideration about about this process is the Federal Voting Rights Act. And you you have to provide district opportunities for communities of color to to have the candidate of their choice. And I think there's been a lot of back and forth about exactly who the candidate of of of the choice is. And, you know, that gets back into the personalities. And, you know, most of the councilors have not done this. You know, I think Frank Baker was the only one around for the last one. And he kind of feels sorry about last time because he felt some precincts got taken away from him that he didn't want. So partly he is trying to rectify what happened to him ten years ago while he's also fighting with all of the other councilors about exactly the boundary shifting. [00:27:07][100.6]
Jennifer Smith: [00:27:08] Well, I'm so glad also you brought up last time because Twitter is a time machine. And so you were kind of reflecting on the last time you covered this ten years ago. This does feel like it's gotten pretty testy this time around and some of it is because of these kind of lingering bits of bad blood from a decade ago. So how is this comparing? Are you seeing some similar objections around redrawing district lines or is it more based in kind of current personalities? [00:27:34][25.4]
Gintautas Dumcius: [00:27:35] Well, I would say I would say some of the concerns are the same about District four and just making sure that there isn't an overconcentration of black voters in there or black residents. There's there's there's concern about that. It's much more intensely personal this time around. I actually talked to some activists today who said like, hey, you know, you were around for the last one like me. And they're saying it's much, much more personal. You know, last time around, Bill Linehan was the the the chair, the chairman. And he actually ended up voting against a final map that went to Mayor Menino, I think it was Tito Jackson came in with a with a map that was from advocates. There was a lot of last minute back and forth. This was this was 2012. So basically it feels like another political era. So but some of the concerns were the same. I think the personalities here this time around is just it's so much more intense for for a variety of reasons. And a lot of that is the personalities in play. [00:28:38][62.8]
Jennifer Smith: [00:28:40] This was already a bit of a fraught project because there was dramatic movement around who was helming it actually, who was in charge of this process on the council level. So walk me briefly through the shift from Arroyo to Breadon and the implications that people were worried about there and whether that was pans out. [00:28:55][15.8]
Gintautas Dumcius: [00:28:56] Sure. Well, what happened was Ricardo Arroyo was running for D.A. and the Globe stories, the allegations of of sexual misconduct from decades ago, that he has steadfastly denied those stories came out and Council President Ed Flynn removed Arroyo from the redistricting chair. And that caused a lot of turmoil within the council because multiple councilors, including councilors of color, felt that was just done unilaterally. It wasn't really. You know, nobody was consulted. He just did that. And the councilors of color felt. Here you are. You're putting in a white councilor. Councilor Breadon, in charge of this redistricting process. So so they were they were very upset with Flynn and some of them. So still, to some degree, remain remain upset about that process. But Breadon, assume the chair and what's happened was, you know, being chair of redistricting is can be a thankless job because you come under fire from all sides. And I think she's she's endeavor to be open to to to to meetings and other other folks testimony, the communities of color, the NAACP map. I think she's she's really taken and said, you know what I think I think there's enough for a majority of councilors to support that map. And she's moved forward with that. And it's it's it's my understanding is most of the councilors of color are supportive of the NAACP map with maybe some tweaks there. But but that is kind of where it's been the last couple of weeks and the intensity surrounding particularly that map. [00:30:30][93.4]
Jennifer Smith: [00:30:31] So we've seen a number of maps flying around. Different councilors have proposed some. So talking specifically about the so-called unity map, how unifying is it here and what was actually going to be before the council today? [00:30:46][15.0]
Gintautas Dumcius: [00:30:47] Well, I guess unity is subjective because the the ECP, the Boston branch, they came together with a couple of different organizations to say here, here's a map that we think would work. And it basically hooks district forward deeper into that southern end of Dorchester there by and upon said and actually takes a number of of the sponsor precincts which are high voting white precincts some of them conservative and putting them in District four which is represented by Brian Worrell and previously before that Andrea Campbell and and Charles Yancey. So historically a black district. And I think what Worrell and some others have said is, you know, you're you're adding these high voting white precincts to District four, and that could be diluting, you know, black voting power. So I think they've been wrestling with that a little bit and trying to figure out is there a way to make sure there aren't too many voters of color packed into District four if there's a way to increase the number of white voters in District four without diluting black voting power in that district. [00:31:59][72.1]
Jennifer Smith: [00:32:00] Now, there was set to be a vote on that map presented just this afternoon before we recorded, but that's delayed because of a complaint by South Boston civic groups. So what were these groups and why were they throwing around our favorite open meetings laws? [00:32:13][12.7]
Gintautas Dumcius: [00:32:14] Yes. And as you know, the city council has a history of open meeting law violations. So what these South Boston civic groups have done and I got my hands on the complaint just a short while ago, but what they're alleging is there were three meetings where there was a majority of councilors or a majority of of members of the council's redistricting committee, which met without enough public notice, and therefore, that constituted a open meeting law violation. And those three meetings were there was a meeting in the bowling building a couple of weeks ago that was with advocates and advocates led that meeting. There was another meeting in South Boston, actually. And then the third one was a press conference that city councilors and advocates of the NAACP map had together outside City Hall. So so it's those three meetings, and that's the thrust of the open meeting law violation complaint. And the complaint is basically asking for more meetings and essentially trying to slow down slow down the process and and get get more input. But in effect, it has the delay effect right there. And I'm not I'm not sure exactly how many votes it would actually shift, because Chair Breadon said, basically, you know, I do believe we're. If not a majority of councilors are at consensus enough to get to it. So she was ready to put a map forward on Wednesday. And and but but out of out of an abundance of I think it was good faith or caution. She decided to delay it one week to next Wednesday so that the city can can respond to this open meeting on violation. And I'll just say one last point on this. I did just speak with Councilor Flaherty, who was around for a for an open meeting law violation 2000, which the city council actually pleaded guilty to involved urban renewal. And the biosafety lab. That that's a subject of controversy often in Flaherty's estimation, he's from South Boston. He's part of the group that does want to slow this down. He's he feels it's a much more serious, open meeting law violation than it was 20 years ago. So it's it's you know, we'll see what happens. We'll see what the city says. We'll see what the civic groups will say. But for now, it is having the impact of essentially delaying this at least another week. [00:34:39][144.5]
Jennifer Smith: [00:34:40] One side conversation I kind of wanted to touch on briefly was the the consideration of redistricting principles and criteria that there's been a little bit of back and forth on in terms of did we already agree on a set of rules? Did we need to recommit to a separate set of criteria? So where are people out right now in terms of all of the councilors being on the same page with what they're trying to do with this map? [00:35:06][25.7]
Gintautas Dumcius: [00:35:07] Well, I think I think with the principles they were they were talking about kind of more a broad based set of of things to put forward when they're constructing these maps. And the criteria, in Ed Flynn's estimation, was a little more specific, and it was based on something that one of the redistricting experts, you know, told told them about. You know, I think from from Flynn's perspective, he was hoping he was hoping to use this as a kind of help the council and help it in any eventual lawsuit. But, you know, I think I think for a lot of the other councilors, they felt we've already this it's too similar. We don't need to do this. So that's where that disagreement stem from. And then ultimately what's right. [00:35:55][47.5]
Jennifer Smith: [00:35:56] And wrapping up is what's next. We've got a vote expected next week. We're very close to the deadline. [00:36:01][5.2]
Gintautas Dumcius: [00:36:02] We are indeed. And, you know, we still get to see what Michelle Wu is going to going to do with her mayoral pen, whether she's going to veto it or do something else, approve it. So I think that's that's still kind of the big question mark. You know, has she submitted her own map? We don't know or thought about submitting her own map. We don't know. She's largely steered clear of this process. Aside from, you know, I did ask her about it the other week and she basically said, you know, I need to and needs to adhere to the Voting Rights Act. You know, she'd like to. And I think she's told others she'd like to see Fields Corner, the Vietnamese community, United in one district. But I think that's still the big question mark, how she reacts to any map that lands on her desk. [00:36:43][40.4]
Jennifer Smith: [00:36:44] All right, Gin. Well, thank you so much, live from the City Hall Council Chambers, thanks so much for being on the horse race. [00:36:50][5.5]
Gintautas Dumcius: [00:36:50] Thanks for having me. [00:36:51][0.4]
Steve Koczela: [00:36:54] And that brings us to our final segment, which this week is the Pony Express Mailbag. And this week's excellent content comes from our good friend Jay Ash of the Massachusetts Competitive Partnership. And he's responding to what's become a meme now, which is this basically costume package, I guess you can put in whatever your job is or, you know, just sort of make it up. And one of the ones that's out there on Twitter is state house aide. And it shows a picture of a very sort of bright eyed young guy with a suit on and a tie and it says not included self-loathing and reception through diet. So Jay asked, Hey, #mapoli, what else is missing from this costume? I'll start. I'd say a coffee cup from the Capital Coffee House. So there were some really funny responses. Generally said, What were some of your favorites? [00:37:40][46.8]
Jennifer Smith: [00:37:42] I mean, I'm worried about how existential everyone got right off the bat. We got, you know, paranoia, crippling student loan debt, like, I guess bags under the eyes is something that at least involves some Halloween makeup. I don't know. I'm a little a little worried. I hope that whatever the statehouse union ends up looking like, they maybe don't commit fully to the idea that this should be a spooky Halloween costume. [00:38:07][25.3]
Lisa Kashinsky: [00:38:09] Well, and that was one of my favorite slash cringe responses was union card question mark of the things that are missing. [00:38:18][8.5]
Jennifer Smith: [00:38:18] So probably not even just make horrible, haunted Halloween noises out there screeches. [00:38:25][6.7]
Steve Koczela: [00:38:26] Somebody responded to the original tweet and asked, Is there an NDA in his pocket or is he just happy to have what he thinks is a job in policy work? So but this. [00:38:34][7.6]
Jennifer Smith: [00:38:34] Man, these hurt. [00:38:35][0.5]
Steve Koczela: [00:38:36] We'll leave that one there. But anyway, outstanding content. Excellent content. Thank you for that, Jay Ash. [00:38:41][4.6]
Lisa Kashinsky: [00:38:42] And that's all the time we have for today in this spooky pre Halloween episode. I'm Lisa Kashinsky signing off with Jennifer Smith and Steve Koczela. Our producer is Elena Eberwein. Please don't forget to give The Horse Race a review wherever you're hearing us now, subscribe to my Massachusetts Politico playbook and reach out to the MassINC Polling Group for polls. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next week. [00:38:42][0.0]
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