Episode 215: Convention Tension
6/2/2022--This week, Jenn is gearing up for an exciting weekend Dorchester Day activities, and wants to see you all there. Meanwhile Lisa is keeping an eye on all the intraparty drama happening in the leadup to the 2022 MassDems Convention this weekend. Steve, Jenn, and Lisa discuss the upcoming convention as well as the recent MassGOP convention, and what we can possibly expect come the September primary.
Later, MassINC Education Equity Fellow Simone Ngongi-Lukula stops by the virtual bunker to discuss her recent op-ed in the Boston Globe, "Massachusetts’ failure to forestall growing segregation." She talks about the well-documented benefits of magnet schools that draw students from varying racial, socioeconomic, and ethnic backgrounds, and how Massachusetts' move to stop funding magnet schools in the nineties has set them back in terms of integration in schools. And that is despite a vast majority of Massachusetts parents wanting more integration in schools.
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“This episode of The Horse Race was brought to you by Benchmark Strategies [www.benchmark-strategies.com/]. Benchmark is setting a new standard as Boston's fastest-growing public affairs consulting firm. To know more, connect with Benchmark on Twitter @benchmarkBoston.
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Full transcript below:
[00:00:03] Today on The Horse Race, everything you need to know about the upcoming Democratic convention in Massachusetts and why Massachusetts schools miss out on the benefits of magnet schools. It's Thursday, June 2nd. [00:00:15][11.6]
Jenn Smith: [00:00:31] Welcome back to the Horse Race, your weekly look at politics, policy and elections in Massachusetts. I'm Steve Koczela here with Jennifer Smith, our beloved co-host. Lisa Kashinsky is mostly off this week, but will be joining us as a guest in a little bit. Jenn, this weekend is the Democratic Convention. I assume because you love these things and can't possibly stay away that you'll be heading out there. Am I right? [00:00:52][20.9]
Steve Koczela: [00:00:54] No, you could not be more wrong. You scale from totally incorrect to like. Absolutely. Shame on you. Out the window, you go. You're more on that side because it is Dorchester Day weekend. I will not be at a convention. I will be observing a lot of lovely musical acts at Dorchfest, which is the inaugural music festival in Dorchester on the Saturday. Instead of watching who everyone nominates, I will catch up on that later. And then, of course, celebrating my beloved neighborhood at Dorchester Day on Sunday. Steve, are you implying that you are going to a convention? [00:01:30][36.1]
Jenn Smith: [00:01:31] No, definitely not. But I do have to ask Dorchfest. This is the shameless plug for your own neighborhood opportunity. I've heard of Porchfest I've been to Porchfest. [00:01:39][8.8]
Steve Koczela: [00:01:39] Oh, yeah. [00:01:40][0.1]
Jenn Smith: [00:01:41] Dorchfest. Is that I'm assuming that's kind of the same thing? [00:01:44][3.0]
Steve Koczela: [00:01:44] It's new. Yes. So it is a play on Porchfest. It is in Dorchester. It's in the Ashmont Hill neighborhood. So if you want to see a bunch of musical acts that are great and fun and maybe new to you, but then also want to hang out with Keytar Bear, who I think will be performing at some point. You can head on out there. There's like 45 bands. I am very excited about it. Thank you for my neighborhood plug opportunity. [00:02:09][24.5]
Jenn Smith: [00:02:10] So that would be deep in the chest this weekend. I myself am sorry. Deep in the chest. I've been told by Bill Fore I can use the chest. I'm just going to. [00:02:19][9.2]
Steve Koczela: [00:02:19] Bill Fore don't listen to this. [00:02:20][1.1]
Jenn Smith: [00:02:22] We can cut all this. That does sound cool. That sounds like a very cool event. I am just doing regular, you know, family stuff, going to kids softball games and birthday parties and all those wonderful things that we do at this time of year. But I do have to ask in a broader sense, Jenn, why are we here today? [00:02:39][17.5]
Steve Koczela: [00:02:40] Well, we're certainly not forming a little Horse Race podcast band in preparation for our own show. [00:02:46][6.0]
Jenn Smith: [00:02:47] We should do that. We should we should do that. [00:02:48][1.3]
Steve Koczela: [00:02:48] You should start a Von Trapp family singers with the. [00:02:51][3.1]
Jenn Smith: [00:02:52] You play the cello, don't you? [00:02:52][0.3]
Steve Koczela: [00:02:52] No, no. I once played the cello. And I resent you trying to imply to our listeners that I still can play the cello on command. I can look at a cello. That's what we're doing. [00:03:02][9.2]
Jenn Smith: [00:03:03] No, I own a viola. I used to play the viola. We can have a string quartet for Dorchfest . [00:03:07][3.6]
Steve Koczela: [00:03:07] This is just very upsetting. So I'm going to pivot all the way to your original question before I got us off the rails. And that is, what are we doing here? We are talking about the Democratic Convention we will not be attending specifically who looks likely to make it onto the ballot and lock down the party endorsement and who does not? Plus, Steve, we will be joined in a bit by Simone Ngongi-Lukula who is a MassINC Education Equity fellow and she recently wrote an op- ed for The Globe about Massachusetts's failure to promote integration in schools. So we'll get to that in just a second. We'll be right back. [00:04:20][73.1]
Jenn Smith: [00:05:32] This week, Massachusetts Democrats will gather together and virtually to endorse candidates for statewide office. There has, of course, been some tension leading up to it, as we'd expect. And to break down the drama, we have our beloved co-host, Lisa Kashinsky, as a guest. Lisa, what's been going on? [00:05:50][17.1]
Jenn Smith: [00:05:51] We all know the potential ballot question that would classify app based drivers, those are drivers for Uber, Lyft, DoorDash, etc., as independent contractors. So the party, the Democratic Party in its platform had denounced this push, had spoken out very clearly against this goal. Yet when delegates started receiving their convention booklet, this pamphlet that was sent out to delegates, you know, kind of detailing the convention, they saw an ad from Flexibility and Benefits for Massachusetts Drivers, which is the coalition that is pushing this ballot question to make these drivers independent contractors. So that was confusing to people, riled some folks up. Then they found out that the group was going to have a table at the convention, despite, again, the party having come out very strongly against what this group was trying to do. So some delegates kind of spearheaded by a Jonathan Cohn, who some of you probably also know is a policy director for Progressive Massachusetts, started circulating a petition to get party chair Gus Bickford and party leadership to basically rescind the table. It's too late to do anything about the ad, but make sure that they can't have a table at the convention. And at first the party said no free speech like have to let you know, sharing of information and ideas. Then 400 people or so I think it was almost up to 500 by the time it was all said and done, signed this petition saying, no, we don't want them there. And that included almost every single candidate running for statewide office from governor on down the ballot on the Democratic side. So now Flexibility and Benefits will not be at the Mass Dems convention. And that is one source of drama that has been nipped in the bud a few days before the convention. [00:07:37][106.8]
Lisa Kashinsky: [00:07:39] So you mentioned, of course, that almost every elected official came out against this on the Democratic side. Was there any element of disagreement there? Were they kind of, you know, operating as one block, even if like so you, Sonia Chang-Diaz and Maura Healey, they are locked in a furious battle for the candidacy. [00:07:59][19.6]
Jenn Smith: [00:08:00] Yeah, this is something that you saw some agreement on between, you know, various rivals in various races. I think the only person who hadn't signed the petition as of this kind of played out over several days. So by the time we got word on Tuesday, I believe that the party was no longer having flexibility about if it's there. I think Secretary of State Bill Galvin was the only candidate who hadn't signed it. I don't know if he was aware of the petition. My efforts to reach his campaign were not successful in that venture. But yeah, pretty much there was an agreement. You know, regardless of rivalry, that this should not be a thing going forward. And it seems like Democrats are pretty against this ballot measure as a whole. [00:08:45][45.4]
Lisa Kashinsky: [00:08:47] And one thing that the convention does, of course, is it can actually whittle down the number of candidates who will ultimately appear on the ballot if they don't get up to the 15% threshold in terms of support from the delegates, then they don't even make the primary ballot. So which offices is this a risk? What candidates are at risk of potentially not making that 15% threshold? [00:09:07][20.6]
Steve Koczela: [00:09:08] So start with lieutenant governor, because you have five candidates. That's the largest field of any of the constitutional offices in either party, really, not just the Democrats. So having five candidates all need to get 15% to get on the ballot. That's not some that's not super great odds, especially when some candidates are more well-known than others. So there's a risk in the lieutenant governor race in particular that people might not make it through. Also, maybe the attorney general's race, there's only three candidates in that, though, so it's more likely. But a lot of the other offices only have two candidates. Or, you know, Deb Goldberg for treasurer is uncontested. So lieutenant governor, maybe attorney general would definitely be the ones to watch here. And I will say, if you have not read your edition of this morning's playbook, you might want to check that out for some more details on this very question. [00:10:05][56.5]
Lisa Kashinsky: [00:10:06] And it's not just kind of the whittling that's a source of some potential drama, it's also some folks have weighed in on the governor's race a few days before the convention. That's caused kind of, you know, some sore feelings. I am, of course, talking about Senate President Karen Spilka, who has endorsed Maura Healey for governor. So. Lisa, what's going on there and why has this been a point of such contention over the last day? [00:10:36][29.9]
Jenn Smith: [00:10:37] So this seems maybe a little surprising to some people that the Senate president would endorse against a member of her own caucus. But it doesn't seem, at least to kind of outside observers that Senate President Karen Spilka and Senator Sonia Chang-Diaz, who is have always had maybe the best relationship. The Senate president did kind of elbow Chang-Diaz off the Education Committee back in the day. So there is that. And now it should be noted, Healey has the endorsements of both of the top Democrats in the legislature because she was previously endorsed by House Speaker Ron Mariano. And Mariano's also endorsed Kim Driscoll for lieutenant governor, the Salem mayor. So he's bypassed, you know, now multiple people who serve in various chambers of the state legislature. [00:11:23][46.6]
Lisa Kashinsky: [00:11:24] All right. Well, certainly plenty of drama to watch on the Democratic side. But let's switch over then to the Republicans who actually are done with their convention. What were the highlights at the top of the ballot? [00:11:34][9.2]
Steve Koczela: [00:11:34] Lisa, as expected, Jeff Deal kind of ran away with the convention a little bit. It was always going to be a favorable crowd for him, especially with Charlie Baker and a lot of his supporters not in attendance. He notched 71% of the vote at the convention, easily securing the party's endorsement, as did his running mate, Lee Allen, for lieutenant governor. But if you look at that from the reverse of that statistic, Chris Doughty got 29% of the vote and he went into that convention honestly wondering if he was going to even get the 15%. So there were a lot of bigger allies and maybe some more moderate members of the party who walked away from that convention, which was a very conservative, very pro-Trump affair, actually seeing signs of hope for moderates in the party because of how well Chris Doughty was able to do. One caveat that I will bring to that is that I talked to delegates and I know that there were others. I've seen State House News Service talk to others as well who voted for Chris Doughty to ensure that there was a primary but don't necessarily have their minds made up of who they're going to cast their ballot for in September. So take take these results with a grain of salt, but there's definitely some hope among moderates right now that the party is not entirely Trump. [00:12:52][77.6]
Lisa Kashinsky: [00:12:53] And it is interesting when we kind of leading up to the primary itself, because one of the dynamics that we've seen in this race is even if there are Massachusetts independents or unenrolled who might have felt pretty favorably about Charlie Baker and even some Democrats, they haven't necessarily been looking for a moderate Republican to tie themselves to. A lot of them have been more leaning toward Maura Healey. So there is the possibility that when we make it all the way to that primary, there may be somewhat of a stronger presence for moderate Republicans. But then if the general ends up coming down to Deal versus Healey, H ealey may end up cleaning up all of those voters who might have otherwise leaned for a Charlie Baker type. So we'll keep an eye on that. But one thing that seems to have brought the two gubernatorial candidates on the Republican side together, at least, is that they have had to deal with the fallout even a week later from remarks made by Rayla Campbell as she was accepting the party's nomination for secretary of state. Lisa, what's going on with some of these other races, starting with Rayla. [00:14:05][71.8]
Jenn Smith: [00:14:06] So both candidates for governor have kind of distanced themselves from this comment that Rayla made, that she claimed that schools were telling five-year-olds that they could perform sex acts on each other. It was a vulgar comment at the time. She was referring to a bill requiring age appropriate sexual health education. Didn't quite come across that way on the stage. Now, both candidates for governor have kind of said that that wasn't an appropriate comment to make and have sort of distance themselves from that. But she is the party's endorsed and only candidate for secretary of state because down the ballot, the Republicans don't have any contested races. So Jay McMahon is again the candidate for attorney general for the Republicans. And Anthony Amore, who is, it should be noted, a proponent of the Baker-Polito administration and is kind of carrying that torch forward a little bit for them in an otherwise pretty conservative time for this party. He is the endorsed candidate for auditor. [00:15:13][66.9]
Lisa Kashinsky: [00:15:14] Chris Doughty earlier this week answering questions from Jim Braude. He basically wouldn't commit to and suggested that he wouldn't even be willing to vote for Rayla Campbell after the remarks that she made. So certainly everybody who listens to this podcast has already heard heard what the remarks are. Just. Wild, wild, baseless kinds of claims. And it's just certainly causing a lot of discomfort for other people on the ballot in her same party. So we'll see on both sides how these matchups shake out. We know on the Republican side and we'll see this weekend on the Democratic side. Lisa, for now, I think I speak for all of my co-hosts and all of our listeners when I when I wish you a week of health and rest, particularly after these conventions are over. [00:15:57][43.0]
Steve Koczela: [00:15:58] Ride on without me, fair fellow podcast hosts. [00:16:01][3.0]
Lisa Kashinsky: [00:16:02] Giddy Up. Our next guest wrote about Massachusetts school segregation problem in an op-ed for the Boston Globe last week. MassINC's Education Equity Fellow also authored the report titled Choosing Integration back in January. Simone Ngongi-Lukula joins us on the Horse Race now to talk us through it. Simone, welcome. [00:16:21][19.8]
Steve Koczela: [00:16:22] Thank you for having me. [00:16:23][0.8]
Simone Ngongi-Lukula: [00:16:24] So in your op-ed, you write that Massachusetts is not doing enough to kind of combat the growing segregation problem that our schools have. So tell us more about what the state should be doing. [00:16:33][9.1]
Steve Koczela: [00:16:34] Well, I think that we know that segregation has just been an issue that we've seen across the country been grappling with for a while now. And post Brown v Board, we sort of thought that that would solve all things segregation. But we know that policy can be interpreted in many different ways. And with Massachusetts in particular, we're just noticing that there continues to be large gaps, opportunity gaps between students of color and white students, and that's across race and class. So I think what Massachusetts could be doing a lot better is just creating more opportunities for students of color to to be able to to close the opportunity and education gap. I think that comes with hiring more educators of color, that comes with training them for the workforce and for the needs that Massachusetts the Massachusetts economy needs in general. That's providing opportunities like early college to close the education gap and to open up opportunities for students of color to know that they have more options when it comes to career choices and career readiness. So those are some of the things that I think Massachusetts could be doing a lot more of. And just in general, just creating more integrated learning environments, I think. In my piece I talked about growing up in New Haven, Connecticut, and attending a magnet school and seeing kids from the suburbs coming to New Haven and having an opportunity to experience that integrated learning environment. Where I learned a lot more about students from different communities that are unlike mine. I think that's something that a lot of Massachusetts students lack and that a lot of Massachusetts students should experience more of. [00:18:35][121.3]
Simone Ngongi-Lukula: [00:18:36] So you mentioned your education in Connecticut and the op-ed. I went to a magnet school when I was growing up in California. You went to a magnet school in Connecticut. So kind of delving into the appeal of the magnet school kind of programs and why that's not something that Massachusetts has was really interesting to me. So can you kind of walk through the advantages to magnet school programs and ways that Massachusetts might be able to kind of harness those advantages if it wanted to? [00:19:06][29.4]
Simone Ngongi-Lukula: [00:19:07] Yeah, sure. Thanks for asking, Jennifer. I think just the opportunity to attend a magnet school just opened my eyes to what education could be in general. I think for me, growing up in New Haven, which is a predominantly black, low-income community, there aren't many opportunities and many high schools like mine where I can experience students across different races and socioeconomic backgrounds being in one integrated learning environment. And that's a lot of things that my peers who didn't attend magnet schools didn't have the opportunity to experience. So I think for me, what was really cool was hearing students come from the great engagement area like Milford and Orange, Connecticut and Stamford, Connecticut and Stratford, Connecticut, and hearing them just learning about their community, learning about where they grew up. Similarities in our communities, differences in our communities, different cultural practices that they had that I hadn't really learned or didn't know much of, and vice versa. Hearing how we spoke, seeing how we dress differently, hearing our familiar backgrounds and what their parents did for a living versus what my parents did for a living, their interests. And just really opening my eyes to this broad this broad space that was just so new and so different. And I know that I wouldn't have experienced that had I went to a school that was exclusive to New Haven residents. And that's not to say that that's not minimizing that experience, but that's just to say that we live in a interconnected, interdependent. World now. And I think that that that going to magnets really served me well in that capacity because I got to see, I guess, a snippet of what the world is actually like. [00:21:18][130.9]
Simone Ngongi-Lukula: [00:21:18] And to make it three for three, I actually went to one in Milwaukee two. So I guess that makes all of us. [00:21:23][4.5]
Steve Koczela: [00:21:23] Wow. So 100% saturation. [00:21:26][2.7]
Jenn Smith: [00:21:29] What was the reasoning behind Massachusetts kind of doing away with the program in the nineties? Did we know the benefits back then? [00:21:36][7.3]
Steve Koczela: [00:21:37] Um, I'm not too sure if it was just I think a lot of it had to do was with at first talking about the idea of an integrated learning environment being pro-integration and sort of, okay, this is what a lot of other states are doing. Let's, let's take on this approach as well. But it kind of just became less and less of a conversation, to my understanding, and less attention was given towards was going towards magnet school and going more towards other initiatives. So I can't really put my finger on what exactly it was. I would imagine it's a variety of things. Lack of I think it was just like lack of motivation towards the initiatives. Maybe not enough people being on board or not enough movement behind the initiative. So I think it was just one of those things that we were rallying around for a lot of time, and then it just sort of just dwindled down less and less. People were talking about it less less people were focusing on it. [00:22:42][65.1]
Jenn Smith: [00:22:43] One of the things that you brought up exactly to that point in the op-ed that I found very interesting was the kind of context in the nineties around relaxing the efforts to desegregate. So, you know, magnet schools were a known advantage by the courts weren't is as focused on saying we need to be actively desegregating. So could you walk us through a little bit of what happened as that relaxation was happening? There were no longer an emphasis on magnet schools, but we had METCO, for instance. [00:23:16][33.1]
Jenn Smith: [00:23:17] Yeah, I think we transitioned more into bringing urban kids from urban living environments into suburban spaces, but that wasn't really reciprocated and I think that's one of METCO is good, has been good for that is to say, hey, there are schools that are in different learning communities that you should learn about and be a part of. But it's not being reciprocated for suburban kids going to urban school districts. I would say, hey, let's bring you out here to these other communities. But because we know of the implications that come with living in a low income or not as well funded learning environment, suburban kids aren't receiving that same sort of experience that urban kids are receiving and learning in a community that is unlike theirs. So while METCO, for example, has been a great example of an integrated learning environment, it's only sort of being implemented on one end and not another. So yeah. [00:24:30][73.1]
Jenn Smith: [00:24:31] So given where we are today, and I should note that that pretty strong majority of Massachusetts residents support increasing integration of schools, according to our polling. And kind of given the things that you said and where the public is on this, what can be done now moving forward? What could we do to kind of reverse the trend and increase integration in our schools? [00:24:51][20.2]
Steve Koczela: [00:24:52] Yeah, I think it starts with giving families of color a seat at the table to say, hey, this is something that we want for our kids. We want our kids to attend great schools. It's not as opposed to students attending great schools, well-funded schools, all of that. But I think it's more about who is speaking on behalf of which populations and who whose voices aren't we hearing from. So I think it starts with that. And we know that families of color, particularly parents of color and guardians of color, aren't really in positions of power because of political structures and in other constrained social constraints, policy constraints. So I think it starts with giving families of color a seat at the table to say, hey, we know that you're for this. We know that white families are for this as well. How can you guys engage in conversation to sort of push this initiative forward? Again, with hiring more educators of color so that black and brown students see themselves represented in the education workforce, the opportunity gap and. Creating more career readiness opportunities for students of color to be able to engage with other careers that they careers that they might have thought of, but other careers that they maybe weren't considering. And we are just working. I think another thing is working in partnership with communities. And that's not just to say, yes, black and brown communities, but also white communities to say, we all have this. We can all agree upon the fact that this is important to us. We aren't speaking with each other. We're speaking with stakeholders. We're speaking with educators, we're speaking with school admin. But we aren't we don't really know what the other side is talking about. So just creating conversation. And then with those conversations, action steps, what are the next steps? Let's write it down. Let's create a next meeting. Let's come back in a month or two with next steps, and I think that's where we can start. [00:27:04][131.6]
Jenn Smith: [00:27:05] One thing in the op-ed that I found fascinating is you wrote the economic circumstances in the schools you attend have far more influence on your academic achievement than your family's resources. We tend to think of it as the students circumstances rather than the school's circumstances. But you say it's the other way around? [00:27:22][17.4]
Steve Koczela: [00:27:23] Yeah, because a lot of it that was actually like a really, really fascinating point because we actually found that from another report that was conducted on school segregation in Boston in the early 2000's. And what was most compelling about that particular data point is that students spend ample amount of time in schools. Right. They leave their communities and they're surrounded by other students, other admin, other educators, and really whatever opportunity they're seeing in front of them in schools for that lot, for the period of time they spend in there because they spend most of their days around these other educational influences. And those really have a lot more of a say because of the fact that they're spending so much time there, because of the fact that they're sort of soaking in the learning environment and the content in which they're learning. That has a lot more say than sort of what they're experiencing at home. That's not to say that what they experience at home is any less, but that's to say that they're spending all their time here. So, of course, they're going to sort of take in what they're receiving and internalize it and make sense of it in whichever way it's being presented to them. So it really does shape their learning outcomes and life trajectories more than what they're they're learning in their communities or at home. [00:28:55][92.0]
Jenn Smith: [00:28:56] So in your report, which you co-authored by research director Ben Forman, there's a bit of a discussion in there about something you've touched on, which is the interconnectedness of not just integrated schools, but also the communities surrounding them. There's implications for housing, implications for transportation. So talk about the melding of these conversations and how they might be impacted if the schooling is a bit more disaggregated. [00:29:23][26.9]
Jenn Smith: [00:29:24] Yeah. So in our report, choosing integration, a lot of what we discussed was how you can't talk about one sector, you can't talk about housing on its own, you can't talk about transportation and so on. You can't talk about schooling and education. All it was found that they're interconnected. So the learning environments in which the learning environments in which children learn. Also you can sort of point to their communities and their neighborhoods and also point to transportation. So with the three and then the three sectors being interconnected, if we have better housing opportunities that create, which means better environment in general, where families can just are healthy and can live, their communities are healthy, the air is healthy, the food is healthy. They aren't living in food deserts. That affects how students show up in schools. That affects if children are energetic in the morning, if they aren't tired because they had a poor meal the night before, then that affects their performance and then how they get to school. If their parents have access to cars. If not, if they don't have access to cars, how close is the nearest Bus stop? How close is the nearest train? Are they going to school on time? Are they being marked tardy because they missed the bus and the next bus comes in 30 minutes, 45 minutes. So if we are really thinking about more equitable learning environments, I think one of the biggest points that we tried to hone in on in our report is we cannot think about we can't just expect to have good schools in. Expect students to show up and perform well without thinking about these larger sort of systems that affect how they get to school and how they show up to school and how well they perform. [00:31:12][108.2]
Jenn Smith: [00:31:13] All right, then, Simone Ngongi-Lukula, you look a lot more, I think, Education Equity Fellow. Thank you so much for joining us today. [00:31:18][5.0]
Steve Koczela: [00:31:19] Thank you for having me. [00:31:20][0.8]
Jenn Smith: [00:31:23] And that brings us to our favorite segment of the week and based on our AI based cloud computing supercomputer analysis of millions of user survey responses. Your favorite segment, too. And that, of course, is trivia. The question for this past week was who was the first woman to serve as lieutenant governor from Massachusetts? And nobody got it right. We are keeping our 10,000 trivia points. So Jenn we'll give you our 10,000 trivia points. What was the answer? [00:31:49][26.2]
Steve Koczela: [00:31:50] The answer was Evelyn Murphy, who was in the role at 1986. This week we are giving you all an opportunity to redeem yourselves. And we want to know which lieutenant governor of Massachusetts went on to become president of the United States. So we're looking at you. We will be tweeting this out. Send us answers, correct ones. [00:32:12][21.9]
Jenn Smith: [00:32:13] And this is somebody that you don't hear a lot from. He didn't say much. Just like you don't hear a lot from. Drum roll, please. Lieutenant Governor's. [00:32:20][7.9]
Steve Koczela: [00:32:21] Devastating. That is all the time we have for today. I am Jennifer Smith signing off with Steve Koczela. Our producer, of course, is Libby Gormley. Don't forget to give the Horse Race a review. Wherever you're hearing us now, subscribe to the Massachusetts Politico Playbook. Reach out to the MassINC Polling Group if you need polls done. And a special reminder this week, get a copy of the Dorchester Reporter so you can learn all about the Dorchester Day weekend activities that I already told you about. Thank you all for listening. We will see you next week. [00:32:21][0.0]
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