Episode 207: Anthony Amore on State Auditor Run

3/31/22--It shouldn't be too difficult to sit back, relax and enjoy this week's episode of The Horse Race because, according to a WalletHub study (wallethub.com/edu/most-stressful-states/32218), the state of Massachusetts ranks among the least stressed states in the nation. Jennifer, Lisa, and Steve have a lot to say about the accuracy of this study.

Later, in light of Governor Charlie Baker's HireNow program geared towards getting people back to work and meeting employers needs, we discuss why so many people across the country are leaving their jobs in the first place. MassINC Polling Group research associate and producer of the pod Libby Gormley talks through a Pew Research poll documenting U.S. workers' reasons for quitting jobs in 2021. (www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2022/…g-disrespected/)

Finally, this week Governor Charlie handed out his first endorsement in a statewide race this year. It went to Republican candidate for state auditor, Anthony Amore. Amore joins us on the show to discuss his approach to the race as the sole Republican, his priorities if elected, and how his background as a federal agent, Homeland Security official, and museum security director has prepared him to take on the office.

Full transcript below:

Jennifer Smith: [00:00:25] Today on the horse race, Anthony Amore scored Gov. Charlie Baker his first statewide endorsement this year in his run for state auditor. Plus a new survey on why employees are leaving their jobs in record numbers. It's Thursday, March 31st. [00:00:38][12.8]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:00:49] Welcome back to the horse race, your weekly look at politics, policy and elections in Massachusetts. I'm Lisa Kashinsky here with Steve Koczela and Jennifer Smith. So first, let's start with a quick stress level check. [00:01:01][11.3]

Steve Koczela: [00:01:01] I read online that we are all not stressed. It says so right there. There is a study done and we in Massachusetts are tied for second to last or among the least stressed states, according to this very scientific survey or a study, I should say that was done. Jenn, how's your stress level? [00:01:19][18.1]

Jennifer Smith: [00:01:21] It it's not ideal because, OK, here's my take. You cannot trust a stress poll that has a zero percent response rate from Horse Race co-hosts. We are very stressed and it should be accounted for. And also, frankly, I want to know who they asked because in my experience, Massachusetts is way more stressed than other states. And we've earned the right to be recognized as such. I mean, what do you think, Steve? Is this a poll that filled you with stress, even just looking at it? [00:01:46][25.3]

Steve Koczela: [00:01:46] It did a little bit, but I should correct myself, actually. 43 The forty third, most stressed. So we're actually not second to last. So I don't know. Maybe that adds something. The most stressed is actually--the least tressed is actually Utah. So Jenn, maybe you've got something to say there as well. [00:02:03][16.1]

Jennifer Smith: [00:02:03] Yeah, I was just in Utah, and I don't think that I'm maybe the determining factor in whether or not a state is stressed. But I don't think we should ignore the possibility that as soon as I'm in one state or the other, the stress level just rockets up. And that is why Massachusetts is slightly above Utah at this very moment because I'm here. Look, I think at this point someone said this online and I can't remember who, but the stress is just ingrained in us at this point. Like it as part of our ethos, it is part of our existence. Like, think about it this way. I am not from Massachusetts. Every time I go home to New York, but you know, I've been here, you know, decade plus whatevesr. So every time I go home to New York and I'm in a car and I'm driving with my parents, Jenn's already laughing at the story, and there's a yellow light I speed up. I don't slow down. Everyone else slows down, but I speed up because I'm from Massachusetts now. And you know, my and I'm telling people like, Oh, you're driving too slowly. My parents are like, You have the worst road rage that anyone has ever seen that we have ever seen in our lives. But it's not road rage. It's just these are everyone else is driving incorrectly. I'm calm. I just need people to get out of my way. So I'm going to lean with team like this is so ingrained that it won't show up in a survey anymore, because how do you measure something that's just part of who we are? [00:03:21][77.8]

Jennifer Smith: [00:03:21] It's relative stress, like if our baseline level for stress in Massachusetts is already up at 11 and you ask people, Hey, are you more stressed today than usual? And they say, Well, you know, the golden dome hasn't fallen on my head this morning. So no, of course, it's not going to show up as more stress than usual. [00:03:37][16.3]

Steve Koczela: [00:03:38] Yeah, it's just like everyday life. Like, do I feel stressed? No, I feel normal like that. Which in any other state would be, well, OK. That's you seem like you're pretty stressed. You know, you just cut that person off. You're driving like we do here at Massachusetts, just pretending that you can't see anybody else. So you're just going to go and do what you need to do. But the study was done by WalletHub dot com, the paragon of scientific research that they are and included a whole bunch of different statistics on things like work related, stress, money related stress, family health and safety related stress. And they got data from various surveys. They got data from the census, the CDC, child care-- all different kinds of places. It doesn't matter anyway. There's data from all over the place. However, they put it in there like caldron and started around to make some kind of magic brew. It came out saying, We in Massachusetts are not stressed. So congratulations horse race listeners. What you are experiencing is calm and zen. So even if you think it's stressed, you should just get used to it because this is what Zen feels like. [00:04:43][65.2]

Jennifer Smith: [00:04:44] I hate it. I hate it so much. This is just the worst news of the day. [00:04:48][3.8]

Steve Koczela: [00:04:48] So with that in mind, we have to move on from that, although we should honestly just spend the whole episode on that. [00:04:53][5.3]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:04:53] Do we, though? [00:04:54][0.2]

Jennifer Smith: [00:04:55] I have more things to say about stress levels. [00:04:57][1.9]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:04:57] I could talk about stress all day. Come on. [00:04:59][1.9]

Steve Koczela: [00:05:00] Maybe we need to de-stress, but we're already de-stressed. It says so right there on wallethub dot com. [00:05:04][4.1]

Jennifer Smith: [00:05:05] I, for one hope that listening to the podcast is a meditative experience for our listeners where they can just, you know, take it in, listen to us, get out all of the state's remaining three bits of rage and then, you know, they can they can relax after that. [00:05:19][14.5]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:05:20] I will say that sometimes my dad listens to our lovely podcasts to help him fall asleep at night. So there is scientific data that shows that listening to this podcast and others and others he hits just his routine will help put you to sleep. So take that. [00:05:37][17.6]

Jennifer Smith: [00:05:38] No, no, it's OK. You can let your dad drag us. It's fine. It's fair. [00:05:41][3.4]

Steve Koczela: [00:05:42] We should just insert like a smooth jazz break between segments for this. For this episode, just to, like, help people reduce their stress level, [00:05:49][7.0]

Jennifer Smith: [00:05:49] Smooth jazz bugles. [00:05:50][0.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:05:51] Anyway, what are we doing here today other than being outraged about how unstressed we are? [00:05:56][4.7]

Jennifer Smith: [00:05:57] Yes. Well, aside from our kind of conversational chaos, we are catching up. It may be a more orderly fashion with Anthony Amore, who is a Republican candidate for state auditor. And then with all of the questions surrounding the future of the workforce in Massachusetts, we're breaking down a new survey on why so many people left their jobs last year. So, shall we? We ride at dawn. I feel like it's not going to help our stress levels. If we're riding out at dawn, we should be riding out during a normal hour when it's slightly lighter outside because it's really dark in the morning now. [00:06:26][29.6]

Steve Koczela: [00:06:34] Governor Baker earlier this month rolled out a $50 million workforce development program aimed at meeting employers training needs and filling the 200000 open jobs in the state. But whether Baker's higher now program succeeds hinges on the jobs available being appealing to potential workers. So why did so many people leave their jobs last year? And what do employers need to fill those jobs to break down a new poll on the topic? We're joined by a very special guest. Libby Gormley, of course, you know her as producer of the horse race, but because she's never had a horse race title before, we're giving her the role of vice president of employment statistics. Libby, welcome to the horse race. [00:07:12][37.9]

Libby Gormley: [00:07:13] Oh wow, thank you so much. What a impressive title. [00:07:15][2.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:07:18] I mean, considering that we have supreme commanders and, you know, lifetime achievement award. [00:07:22][4.1]

Libby Gormley: [00:07:22] I take that back. [00:07:23][0.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:07:24] I felt like the least we could do anyway. So we hear about it all the time. We hear about the great resignation, the great quit, whatever you want to call it, but break it down. What do the numbers actually look like in terms of the worker shortage here in Massachusetts? [00:07:36][12.9]

Libby Gormley: [00:07:38] Yeah. So starting just nationwide, just to get some context here, the Bureau of Labor Statistics is out with their monthly jobs report this week, and it shows that, as you said, the great resignation is continuing. It's something that started in the midst of the pandemic, and it's still going strong. 4.4 million Americans quit their jobs this month, but sort of scaling down into Massachusetts, we see that unemployment in the state was 4.7 percent in February. And just to sort of compare that to pre-pandemic days in February of 2020, unemployment was just 2.9 percent. So a little bit of an uptick there. And then just looking sort of at the past year as a whole, this great resignation is really significant. We look at out of the seventy five point three million workers that were hired last year, sixty eight point nine million of them quit were laid off or discharged. And then out of those, sixty eight point nine million, forty seven point four million were voluntary quit. So it's a big problem and it's nationwide and here in Massachusetts. [00:08:41][63.3]

Jennifer Smith: [00:08:43] So let's get into why those people are voluntarily quitting their job. What are the numbers look like saying the reasons people were leaving? [00:08:52][9.0]

Libby Gormley: [00:08:53] Yeah. So this is coming from a Pew Research Center poll from just a couple of weeks ago and the first the biggest reasons are sort of ones that you would probably expect pay being too low, no opportunities for and for advancement. Those both exist as the top two reasons, with 63 percent support coming for both of those. But then something that you know you might not expect so much is that the next biggest reason with 57 percent of people saying is that they felt disrespected at work? And then after that, you know, this is an issue that has taken a lot of national attention and has sort of really come to light in the pandemic due to schools being closed, remote schooling becoming sort of the norm, at least for, you know, much of 2021. And that reason is because of child care issues going down the line. So the child care issues, 48 percent of people said that was a reason. Forty five percent of people said not enough flexibility to choose when to put in hours, 43 percent of people said, because benefits weren't good. There are more reasons that you can check out. We'll put a link in the show notes, but those are kind of the biggest reasons that people were were leaving their jobs. [00:10:03][70.3]

Jennifer Smith: [00:10:04] So when you're looking at the various reasons that people were listing for why they would be leaving a job, are you breaking this in your head into things that are obviously pandemic related vs. might have been issues in previous years? [00:10:17][13.3]

Libby Gormley: [00:10:18] Yeah, definitely so. Of course, when you're seeing things like pay being too low and no opportunities for advancement, that's going to be an issue regardless of whether there is a pandemic happening. Same could be said about felt disrespected at work, but the definitely the child care issues being a huge sort of phenomenon happening because of the pandemic. And then also the flexibility thing. I mean, we're definitely seeing that at least with workers who can work from home. Flexibility is all of a sudden this great option that they have. And so if that's not an option for people who may have gotten used to that during the pandemic or for people who maybe never got it, but it's something that's now on their mind and now an option for so many people. Obviously, you know, that's going to be front and center for a lot of people. Yeah, it's interesting in this, you know, kind of scrolling down the list of reasons that the thing that dominated the headlines so much, which was people leaving because their employers are going to require them to get vaccinated against COVID. That was the last on the list. That was only 18 percent of people saying that. That's the reason why they left their job. That kind of surprises me. Does that surprise you guys? [00:11:28][69.1]

Steve Koczela: [00:11:29] Well, it was interesting that it was the the bottom of the chart. You know, it's it's the thing, probably the. Generated the most, and I think just because it's politically divisive and kind of makes for easy headlines and so forth. But, you know, looking and seeing it down there below kind of the more I don't know what the word is, but pedestrian reasons like normal reasons that you might quit a job, you know, it seems like those reasons happened in higher frequency, maybe this year than usual. But you know, they were all more important or more common than, you know. All right. COVID vaccine requirement? [00:12:00][31.0]

Libby Gormley: [00:12:01] Yeah, Lisa you make a good point because for all of the media attention that it got, at least on this list, it's the it got the least amount of respondents citing it as the as they're either minor or major reason for leaving. So 18 percent of people said that their employer requiring a COVID 19 vaccine was either a minor major reason for them leaving. And that's, you know, not insignificant, but certainly the lowest on this list. And then if you look at the education breakdown as well, for folks with some college or less, 21 percent of people cited that as a reason. But for folks with at least a bachelor's degree, if not more, only eight percent of people cited that as their reason for leaving. So really not, you know, not as heavy hitting as the media sort of made it out to be. [00:12:48][47.3]

Jennifer Smith: [00:12:49] Well, because it does sort of imply a few different things that this could mean, for instance, which is either you might not be happy about needing to get a vaccine, but it's still easy to do and cheap to do so. There are people saying, you know, I'd rather keep the job and get the vaccine, so it's obviously not a reason to quit. Or you might end up with a situation of people saying, Well, I have access problems. I've got, you know, everything from kind of anti-vax attitudes toward kind of skepticism toward government mandates, all of those kind of factors. So it is interesting to see that overall, this is kind of bottom of the list of why people left, but it doesn't actually account for maybe the folks who were not happy about it, but still were able to make that decision. So it's easier, for instance, maybe to get a vaccine. I would argue it's easier, definitely to get a vaccine than to, you know, negotiate additional flexibility in work hours, for instance. [00:13:46][56.8]

Libby Gormley: [00:13:48] Right? Yeah, this doesn't mean that, you know, only 18 percent of people weren't happy about getting a vaccine. It just meant 18 percent of people were unhappy enough to leave their job as a result. [00:13:58][10.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:13:59] So then let's talk about how the people who did leave their job are doing at this point, because Pew also dug in some detail into, OK, well, you left your job at some point in that year. What's happened since, you know, in terms of pay in terms of Work-Life Balance? How are people who left their jobs doing at this point? [00:14:14][15.3]

Libby Gormley: [00:14:16] Yeah, I would say those numbers are encouraging. So a majority of those who quit a job in 2021 and are not retired say that they are now employed either full time or part time. So four full time, folks, that's 55 percent. Part time, 23 percent. And then of those, 61 percent say that it was at least somewhat easy for them to find their current job. Thirty three percent say it was very easy, and for the most part, the workers who quit their job last year are employed somewhere where they see their current situation as a step up as an improvement from where they were prior. So at least half of these workers say that compared to their last job, they're now earning more money. So that's 56 percent of people and have more opportunities for advancement. That's 53 percent of folks. And then when it comes to sort of balancing that work life struggle that we all have balancing work and family responsibilities. Fifty three percent of people say that they have an easier time of that, and 50 percent of people say they have more flexibility to choose when they put in their work hours. So some really significant, you know, improvements there. One thing I do want to point out is the unsurprising sort of gender split among folks who say that balancing the work and family life is is easier. So six in 10 men say their current job makes it easier for them to balance work and family, and that's higher than the share of women who stay the same. That being at 48 percent. So, you know, kind of a an expected difference there. But I think all in all, you know, it's encouraging to see that people are able to find better opportunities for themselves. And if the pandemic had anything to do with that, then I would say that's a silver lining for a generally terrible event of all of our lives. [00:15:58][102.9]

Jennifer Smith: [00:15:59] Well, there is so much to dig in. We could be here all day. But as you mentioned, people can go poke through the actual survey itself and the results in our show notes. But aside from that, Libby, and whatever your title is and you aspire for your title to be, it was a pleasure to have you on. [00:16:16][16.5]

Libby Gormley: [00:16:17] Thanks, guys. I'll just get back to listening to the rest of this conversation and pointing out any flubs that you. [00:16:22][5.7]

Steve Koczela: [00:16:28] Our next guest announced his campaign for state auditor, promising the courage to speak truth to power on Beacon Hill. Anthony Amore is the head of security for the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum and also a former candidate for state office, and he's also a former guest of this podcast. Anthony Amore, welcome back. [00:16:44][15.8]

Anthony Amore: [00:16:45] Thanks for having me. [00:16:45][0.6]

Steve Koczela: [00:16:46] So first and foremost, as you like to do, let's just start with the basics. Why are you running for state auditor? [00:16:50][4.2]

Anthony Amore: [00:16:52] Well, as you might know, I have two daughters that I've raised here in Massachusetts, and actually I'm now helping my partner to raise her eight year old. And I really do have a great understanding of how expensive it is to raise a family in Massachusetts. And I think now is a really important time to have a watchdog to come in and make sure that taxes are-- taxes are spent efficiently and effectively, and to provide checks and balances to protect the taxpayer against spending sprees onBeacon Hill. I think that I can be an independent auditor, a small "i" independent. I think it's really important that people understand that, you know, when you start school and you learn about civics from the very beginning, you start to learn about checks and balances and having those on Beacon Hill is so important, I think that we are widely regarded as a one party state, despite the fact that we often have a Republican in the corner office and I can't think of a more important office to have someone provide checks and balances than an auditor. [00:18:06][74.1]

Anthony Amore: [00:18:07] Not only is that the chief accountability officer, so it's a natural fit, but also to have, I guess, what would be the opposition party of Massachusetts keeping an eye on the majority party. I know I can do it, I have the skills, the abilities, and the experience. I've spent 30 years as an investigator. I got assessments and audits at the federal level and that private level. And I know that these are skills that are essential to running the auditor's office. I've run large governmental organizations for extended periods of time. When I took over screening at Logan Airport, I had 1200 federal employees and I ran a compliance and enforcement department which did essentially what the auditor's office does with a couple of dozen employees. And today, for the last 60 years, I've had a large security department. I understand what it takes to run an organization, not just the vision for running it, but for handling the nuts and bolts of everyday work in government. [00:19:11][64.1]

Jennifer Smith: [00:19:12] And so, as you noted, there is a kind of partisan question often in Massachusetts. You're at the lone Republican running. To what extent do you expect that would influence your work as auditor? One thing that came to mind is in your initial announcement, you had referenced kind of protecting or looking after Charlie Baker's accomplishments in office. So how do you envision that? [00:19:36][24.3]

Anthony Amore: [00:19:37] Well, that's a great question. I'm glad you asked that way. When I think about Charlie Baker and and current leaders accomplishments over the last eight years, I don't think the think of them as Republican accomplishments. I think of them as good government accomplishments. I've said since I've announced that I'm not running to be the Republican auditor, I'm running as a Republican for auditor. I want to be the taxpayers audtior. I want to be the person there that represents the people. So I don't see it as a partisan office. I have this vision of professionalism over politics, right where you're looking at the books in a fair manner, but fearlessly at the same time, too, and not going to be compelled to do a party's bidding, but to do the people's bidding into and to be an effective watchdog in that respect. You know, if I could add to that really quick. Yeah, sure. When I did this work for the federal government, it's the same sort of work looking at government programs related to security and really in depth and really important stuff. And I was a civil servant doing it. At no time did I or my staff by law talk about politics on the job. That wasn't what we were there for. We were there to be good custodians of public trust, and that's what I plan to do as auditor. [00:20:59][81.6]

Steve Koczela: [00:21:00] You also mentioned a couple of other specific priorities when in your launch announcement, you mentioned looking for waste on college campuses as a way to reduce student debt and making sure that if the state begins giving driver's licenses to undocumented immigrants, there's no fraud or abuse. Why those specific two, you know, there was a lot in your announcement, but why those? Why those? I guess three things we've already gone through one, Why, why those other two specifically? [00:21:23][23.1]

Anthony Amore: [00:21:24] Glad you asked, you know, from a meta level, when I think about what the auditor does, I think it's it's very important that the auditor not focus on things that are near and dear to them, because that's the surest way that you'll miss other glaring problems. But when I think about my personal experiences and things that stand out to me, those two came to mind. Number one, my daughter, my younger daughter, is a student at UMass Amherst. And when I walk around the campus, I'm impressed. But I also notice a lot of new construction going on, these ongoing projects. And I wonder, are the tax dollars and the tuition dollars that are being spent on these projects being spent wisely? I know just from doing my own research that you know, when the when the state builds a parking garage at UMass Boston, the parking spots cost far more than they do when they go build one at Salem State, and I want to know why. When you build a dorm at UMass Boston, it costs a heck of a lot more than it does at, say, Bridgewater State. Why? Why are these things the case in these things, I think, should be looked into? People, we hear from both sides of the aisle, rightfully so, that college graduates and ongoing students, current students are being faced with a mountain of debt. [00:22:50][86.1]

[00:22:52] There's not much the auditor can do about the existing debt, but there is something the author can do to make sure that every penny that's being spent on tuition and in tax dollars is being spent wisely and efficiently and the way that the taxpayer would hope. Moving on to immigration, I just happen to have a lot of personal experience in immigration. I began my professional career with the federal government in the what used to be called the Immigration and Naturalization Service. I think you and I Steve probably only ones that are old enough to remember that. But when I did that, I worked with, you know, coincidentally, I remember doing that job and having refugees from the Bosnian War coming into the United States and processing these refugees and meeting them. So I really understand that the the issues that refugees from the current war in the Ukraine face coming here, I understand the fears of those people and I'm a big proponent of refugees and asylum system, but I also know the nuts and bolts of the immigration system. And when I read the outline of how licenses would go to undocumented people in Massachusetts, I know that from my immigration experience, we're talking about RMV employees who are already overburdened. [00:24:18][86.3]

Anthony Amore: [00:24:19] If you go to the RMV, you see it. They deal with a heck of a lot there. Nobody goes to the RMV and says, Boy, that was a piece of cake or, Gee, that was easy and efficient. It's hard and I'm not picking on Massachusetts. That's true across the country and it has been our whole lives. And then now to say to your your RMV employees who work, they work very hard, say to them, Hey, you are now going to have to be able to tell a an identity document or birth certificate for one of two hundred plus countries and use that to issue an identity document. I think the auditor really need to look into that process to see how is this being done? How are people being treated fairly when they go to the RMV? This is also a pro-immigrant matter because once you get that I.D., the people who have them should feel confident that it's going to be a reliable document for them going forward forward and not brought into question because down the road, people determined there was a heck of a lot of fraud. So there's a lot of issues related to the driver's license. One other one that comes to mind is I read in the outline that the RMV employees will not be allowed to ask people their citizenship. OK. But they will also give these ideas and register people to vote who wish to vote. So if you can't ask someone citizenship, how are you ensuring that that their their voter registration is done properly? So these are the things that the auditor rightfully should look at to make sure the process is being being done in compliance with the law in the best interest of everybody involved, all of the residents of Massachusetts. [00:26:05][105.9]

Jennifer Smith: [00:26:06] So one thing that's come up in all of these interviews is the auditor's office is pretty substantial, but also notoriously doesn't have enough people to be doing everything in the world that the auditor might like to do. So as you're thinking about your priorities. One of the first things that you said you would do would be to kind of audit the auditor's office. What does that look like in your view and how do you expect to gauge what your priority areas would be going forward? [00:26:33][26.9]

Anthony Amore: [00:26:34] Well, it's such an important issue. I think before an auditor's office can look at the other 209 state agencies and say and determine and evaluate their performance, we have to know that our own house is in order, and I know there have been audits of the Auditor's Office in the past, but I don't think that the organizations that have done them have been completely independent. I think we need to bring in a completely independent auditor to see why isn't the auditor's office reaching its mandated goals and that is to audit every agency once every three years. So we know that's not happening. Why? And I want to know from day one. So that's why we have this independent audit to see how do we get this in order? Is it a funding problem? And if it's a funding problem with, you know, with a genuine collegial spirit, I would approach the Legislature and say, you know, we need an improved budget structure for this agency. I know that budget hasn't increased outside of small inflationary increases, which haven't kept up with this inflation rate over the last few years. The auditor needs its own office to be performing at top level before we can turn to other agencies and point fingers. So that's why I put auditing auditor's office at the top of my list. But again, I want to emphasize that that audit needs to be completed by a truly independent organization. Turning to national organizations for state auditors and such to which I would be a member, to me, it doesn't seem like an independent audit. [00:28:14][99.5]

Steve Koczela: [00:28:15] You've mentioned specifically that you're committed to auditing the Cannabis Control Commission. And you said in a tweet, "Careful monitoring of governmental performance is at the heart of the state auditor's mission." Why the Cannabis Control Commission specifically? [00:28:28][13.4]

Anthony Amore: [00:28:29] Well, you might have seen the news that recently it was reported that there was a hack of background investigation data held by the CCC. And we also saw that as far as we can determine, the auditors office has never done an audit of the Cannabis Control Commission. So there's two reasons there. First, because we've had a major problem. Second, because it hasn't been done. But I also have a great amount of experience looking at background checks and looking at audits of background checks. They're incredibly important. And there are a few agencies outside of state public safety, and this is basically a quasi public safety agency. I think one could argue where background checks are so sensitive. The Cannabis Control Commission collects really sensitive personal data about people even going as far as you know, patients who have medical marijuana cards, that's medical information about people. The idea that that information could be compromised, I think it was-- I might get the number wrong, but I think it was 164,000 background checks in total that were not compromised. This is unacceptable. I have a keen awareness of this because I've done it for so long managed and inspected background check system. So that was quite alarming to me. I think it's high time that the Cannabis Control Commission is audited. [00:29:51][81.5]

Jennifer Smith: [00:29:52] And one thing that you mentioned previously, of course, is the interaction between the auditor's office and the legislative branch here. Both of these have oversight roles and and are often engaged in somewhat parallel efforts, even though they both have different briefs. So how are you thinking about the auditors role as an advocacy organization and interacting with the legislative obligations on those same fronts? [00:30:16][24.5]

Anthony Amore: [00:30:17] Well, I think where there's a difference both philosophically and statutorily would be in terms of the daylight that can be blasted onto the information that's gathered as we know it's a legislature that's exempt from public records laws. I have been a long time proponent of transparency at the government level, and I think the auditor's office is a great place to implement that. So for instance, if you go to the auditors website now, you can read all of the audits they've done, they're 15, 20-page long. Even in this crowd, I would be surprised if if you've read many or if you've tried to read many, and I don't blame you. Now, that's not because they're not good quality. I think the people that do the work at the auditors office work really hard and they produce a nice product, but the public doesn't read them. They should be produced. They should be available. But the auditor's office should have a database that the public can access where if you're interacting with the RMV and you want to see what the results of the last audit were and you can look really quickly and see what the problems were. And let me add to that, you can see what follow up. The Auditor's office provided its findings because I don't I don't know that that's happening. I think that would be a great asset for people in terms of transparency. It would be a stark difference from the way the Legislature operates. The Legislature audits itself, and those audits are exempt from public records. That would be the yin and the yang of the way the the auditor's office would work under an Amore administration, if you will. I will make that my my guiding light to have a transparent agency that is useful to the public. [00:32:11][113.7]

Steve Koczela: [00:32:12] So you just got Charlie Baker's endorsement. He sent out a fundraising letter recently for you. He, for pretty much his entire time in office, has been at pretty sharp odds with a good portion, if not most of the Massachusetts Republican Party. So how do you you're running as a Republican. How do you think about your own relationship to the Massachusetts Republican Party? [00:32:33][21.2]

Anthony Amore: [00:32:34] You know this race, one of the things I decided when I decided to get into this race was to commit myself to just focusing on my own race. It is so easy to get distracted by the the quarrels that we all read about. We all see on Twitter, we all hear on the radio. It's no secret. It's also no secret that I'm a great proponent and admirer of the governor. I don't hide that I'm incredibly honored and frankly energized to get his endorsement this week. I think it would be detrimental to my aspirations here to focus on how I would see our how I handle these issues that are happening with the party. Rather than focusing on the fact that I want to be this independent auditor for the Commonwealth, a person who is placing people and professionalism above politics. That's how I am now, and that's how I will be as auditor. [00:33:31][57.6]

Steve Koczela: [00:33:32] All right. Well, we have to leave it there. So candidate for state auditor and many time gets to the horse race. Anthony Amore. Thank you so much for joining us today. [00:33:39][6.9]

Anthony Amore: [00:33:40] It's always a pleasure. Thank you. [00:33:41][1.0]

Jennifer Smith: [00:33:44] And that brings us on to our final segment here, because as you might have heard, we're a little bit stressed out in general. We talked about that at length as far as a baseline level of stress here in Massachusetts. But our Pony Express for you this week considers what would happen if an extremely stressful situation were to occur, which might be a grizzly bear just showing up in front of you. And I don't know, demanding that you fight it. Why are we talking about this, Steve? [00:34:09][25.0]

Steve Koczela: [00:34:10] Well, there was another deeply scientific actually. This one was scientific, deeply meaningful, Paul that the company YouGov conducted, where they basically asked the question which the following animals, if any, do you think you could beat in a fight if you were unarmed? And it's, you know, that includes everything from grizzly bears, which bizarrely six percent of Americans seem to think that they could take lions at eight percent. And then it goes through elephants, crocodiles, geese, chimpanzees, everything down to rats and house cats with the percent in each case of who you think would win you or the other animal. [00:34:44][33.9]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:34:45] I am just extremely concerned that only 72 percent of people think that they could beat a rat in a fight. I mean, are we talking like like, I don't like the rats and Alston. I don't like them at all, like they used to be by my old apartment. But like, I could take one in a fight, like, who are the other part of these people who don't think they can take a rat in a fight? [00:35:05][19.9]

Steve Koczela: [00:35:05] I mean, did you watch those videos of like the North End outdoor dining, like the aftermath? Just like it's like the rat, the rat. It has friends. That's the thing you really need to need to be worried about. [00:35:16][10.1]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:35:16] But this isn't asking if the rat has like backup. [00:35:18][1.9]

Steve Koczela: [00:35:20] This is one on one in a ring. [00:35:21][0.9]

Steve Koczela: [00:35:24] Prizefight rules. [00:35:24][0.0]

Jennifer Smith: [00:35:25] I think it's got to depend on where they're surveying people like the New York rats are mean and probably armed. So. So I don't know. Maybe, maybe they'll like two rats in Utah, too busy skiing to really come at you. But the ones in Allston, they're mean and they hate the college students and they're ready for a fight. So really, maybe it just means that, like newcomers to Boston are that 17 percent who are like, I know better, right? [00:35:51][26.9]

Steve Koczela: [00:35:52] I'm running. If I see a rat, I do have to ask you, Lisa, because you're the expert in this particular crew about the next one down, which is House Cats. Only 69 percent of Americans think they think they could take a house cat in a fight. 13 percent don't know. And 18 percent actually think the house cat would best them. So I mean, what? I don't even know what the question is. What is that about? [00:36:15][22.8]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:36:16] I guess maybe there's like two ways to look at this one. Cats are extremely cute. For those of you on this Zoom, you can see my tiny baby basking in the sun by the window. So maybe it's like you don't want to take a cat. They also have claws like I just had to trim her nails. Like, I don't know, like if no one wants to be the person that kicks a cat, I mean, [00:36:37][21.7]

Steve Koczela: [00:36:38] maybe that's it. That could be. [00:36:40][1.3]

Jennifer Smith: [00:36:40] I have questions about why this poll only accounts for medium sized dogs and large dogs. Is it just the understanding that, you know, chihuahuas are right up there with grizzly bears? Zero percent of people thought they could take them? [00:36:53][12.6]

Steve Koczela: [00:36:54] That must be it. [00:36:55][0.5]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:36:55] Dogs are just like they're yappy, and I'm not the world's biggest dog person, but like, they clearly feel like I. I don't know [00:37:04][9.2]

Jennifer Smith: [00:37:05] what. I have so many questions about the mechanics of this, too. 30 percent of people here think they can fight and beat an eagle in unarmed combat. [00:37:16][11.2]

Steve Koczela: [00:37:20] I don't even know what that would look like. That's that's a very good idea. [00:37:22][2.2]

Jennifer Smith: [00:37:22] Is that standing there with like a tennis racket? No, you can't. You're unarmed standing there, swatting at it as it swoops out of the sky. I just again, we have to put this in context of the stress pole here, because maybe the more stressed areas are also the ones where they're being forced to just bat away attacking eagles constantly. [00:37:41][19.1]

Steve Koczela: [00:37:42] We did notice with some objection that the Falcons were not included and horses also not included. But we want to know which of these animals you hit. Deer horse race listeners are confident that you could take in a fight if you had to square up with a goose, a grizzly bear, a kangaroo, a rat or any of the other items listed on this chart, which we'll link to in the show notes. How do you take your chances of walking out of there with a victory? Since most of you are listening from Massachusetts, this will help us get a look at our state's level of hubris when it comes to beating down dangerous animals in a fight, which is the data we need and frankly, the data you all deserve. [00:38:17][34.7]

Lisa Kashinsky: [00:38:18] I absolutely cannot wait to hear everyone's responses to this, but that is all the time that we have for today. I'm Lisa Kashinsky here with Jennifer Smith and Steve Koczela. I have to go run in, watch a legislative hearing, so don't forget to give us a review wherever you're hearing us now. Subscribe to my Massachusetts Politico playbook in your inbox every weekday morning and ping the Mass Inc polling group for polls. Thanks for listening. We'll see you all next week. [00:38:18][0.0]

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